Dear Suze online, while I'm not sure what turns men to gaydom, and therefore won't enter into the feminazi debate, I would offer the following.

I am absolutely certain (as a father of two boys) that boys learn how to be men from other men. More specifically (if possible and present) their fathers.

If there is no father present (for instance in single-mother or lesbian set-ups) then boys will gravitate to the nearest powerful male role model, be it a good one or otherwise (rappers, local gang members seem to get a good look-in :P)

Boys need a man present and preferably their biological father. If you doubt what happens to directionless boys, pay a visit to your local prison.

That's what Warwick's article was about, men choosing to spend time with their boys. Not a bad goal I would have thought.

Malcolm.

P.S. On your assumption that: "Homosexuals are BORN that way, regardless of who their parents are or how they are brought up,and that is a proven scientific fact", may I gently offer the fact that recently, the American Psychological Association _removed_ a statement from their brochure that said "that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality".

It was replaced with: "There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible ... influences, _no_ findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors."

I did look up the APA website and the quote is there in black and white.

Formersnag, you seriously just accused others of having “rambling rants”? You’re having a laugh eh. You are the one that believes women make men gay or was that Eyeaminsane?

What about you Ross… what is going on with you. I checked out one link (sad story) and listened to the other link (misinformation gone nuts).

Your father sounds like a nice guy. Your involvement with your children sounds great, well done, kudos and all that.

And you were mean to Houel who I must say I am rather fond of but he can man up and take it.

I agree there are huge problems in society today, fatherlessness sucks, useless mothers suck. Men and women so engrossed in fighting each other that the children suffer sucks. The ones that only blame women in general I find somewhat… well, stupid is the best word I can find for how I see it. I have no idea where the question of homosexuality entered this conversation.

As usual this isn’t a conversation about anything but the CSA. I am still not seeing, and have read Anti’s (who I’m also quite fond of) posts, where they decide how humans will choose to interact with each other. My ex and I, although battling and getting reviews all over the place (he called every one) were still okay, chatted on the phone, he dropped in for coffee etc. Child Support didn’t have any power over us.

The message you boys are trying to convey is what? Because all I am hearing is that you believe women control the country, the courts, the CSA, your lives, and make all your decisions for you and you had to sit back and suffer – that about it…? I’m going to need convincing.

Anticeptic, I understand that we all have some awful family conflict stories to tell, and they are mostly very sad for the children involved.

The current Family Court system has been improved since 30 years ago when my family situation developed.

My father left my mother after 22 years of marriage and 4 children.
He left us all (including my mother) a letter on our beds to say he was leaving because he was in love with another woman and was moving in with her and her 2 children.

What followed were years of hell watching my mother having to sell the family home to pay my father half, then she had to try and find work with no experience at anything but childrearing.
She used to beg us to ask dad for maintenance money, because he never sent any and there were no courts to tell him to do so.

Meanwhile he lived with his well off younger lover in a nice suburb with his own home and had a good job.
At 18 years old I was trying to help mum out financially with my 3 siblings, while my father travelled the world.

No, we don't want to go back to those horrible days and I don't care what I am called if I say the men have had it too easy for too long as far as their obligations to their children go.

Yes, I am aware there are terrible women out there (eg my stepmother!)
however, I firmly believe many of the disgruntled fathers battling it out in the family courts are upset because of a loss of control over their women.

Sue.

P.S. By the way, my brothers never became gay because their father was largely missing from their lives. However, my best friend has been happily married for 25 years now, and her lovely son is gay, despite having always had a wonderful relationship with his father.

SUE.When my ex and i split up she just left and took my daughter, then spent 3 years going to the pub boozing almost every night of the week using the child support i paid her while our daughter often went hungry,while i could hardly afford to go out at all,and having not one boyfreind but several almost every night. I'm sorry to hear about your story but for every story that is told like yours there is one just like mine. The trouble is that the government pours millions of dollars into helping and supporting those single mothers who don't care about their kids, but don't put one cent to help place those kids with a loving father, we do exist you know, i'm not an orphan, in fact they do their best not to let a father have his children. The problem is that when a story like yours comes up everyone is supposed to care and give help and support but when one like mine comes up i'm just supposed to suck it up and be a man. Daughters like mine are just as important as anyone elses, it shouldn't matter whether she is being brought up by a single father. The ONLY improvement to the family law system in the last 30 years has been the presumption of 50/50 shared care brought in by the previous gov't, and now the feminist lobby even wants to wind that back, pointing to a few high profile cases of child murder and neglect perpetrated by fathers and completely ignoring the far greater numbers of child abuse and murders perpetrated by mothers and their new boyfriends.

Can Eyeseewhatyousee?

http://www.aifs.gov.au/nch/pubs/sheets/rs7/rs7.html

Child deaths resulting from parental abuse are unique among homicides in terms of the high proportion of women offenders. Female offenders are usually biological mothers, whereas male perpetrators are usually de facto or step parents to the child victim (Alder & Polk, 2001). It has been found that de facto or stepparents kill children in their care at a much greater rate than biological parents, with many more stepchildren killed by stepfathers than by stepmothers (Daly & Wilson, 1994; Strang, 1995). The greater rate of harming by stepfathers is in part due to small children rarely residing with biological fathers and stepmothers (Daly & Wilson, 1994).

Most researchers who have used police homicide records suggest that the majority of perpetrators are males (Lyman et al., 2003). However, many deaths due to maltreatment may not meet the criminal definition of homicide, particularly deaths due to neglect (Finkelhor, 1997; Lawrence & Irvine, in press). The US National Incidence Study (Sedlak & Broadhurst, 1996), which is based on child maltreatment cases that include neglect, showed that almost 80 per cent of fatal maltreatment cases were attributed to female perpetrators.

Studies have shown that mothers are predominantly responsible for neonaticides (death of child aged under 24 hours) (Creighton, 1995, Finkelhor & Dziuba-Leatherman, 1994). These women tend to be young or immature women who are ill-equipped to deal with pregnancy and the care of a child (Finkelhor, 1997).

There is evidence that men are most often responsible for child deaths that result from physical assault (Ewing, 1997). A characteristic of these cases is the apparent attempt to punish or discipline in response to the child's behaviour (e.g., crying), rather than an intent to kill the child (Adler & Polk, 2001).

Hi folks. Here are the official U.S. Government Data on child abuse, 2006. These figures are remarkably similar to our Australian perpetration trends of biological mothers and fathers.

Let the figures speak for themselves: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_r85NZCM2Dk8/SlHILj6fufI/AAAAAAAAAIU/Xycev2lSliI/s1600-h/U.S.+Child+abuse+perpetrators+2006.JPG

Instep

(for those who missed the equivalent Aussie data see here: http://www.mensrights.com.au/dads_not_the_demons.pdf )