punter57: << Now, plenty of lefties like CJ Morgan deny they are lefties but still adhere to groupthink and 1970s lefty ideas of Zionist Entities and nasty Jews. Despite Hamas being disowned by almost everybody, western lefties champion them. Apart from Iranian and Syrian thugs..and lefties like Mac and CJ the world has rejected them. >>

Now, where have I ever denied that I'm a "lefty"? I certainly am a "lefty" from where you apparently sit, but then again so would Attila the Hun be, I suspect. As for me supposedly supporting Hamas, what I said was that it is "an odious Islamic organisation - hardly "championing" them, no?

If you were to get over your obviously ingrained antipathy towards Muslims and Islam in general, you might be able to understand my point that Israel is at least as responsible for the existence of Hamas as Islam is. The more Israel tries to "destroy" Hamas, the more popular support Hamas will attract from Palestinians and their supporters.

In this conflict, neither side is in the right - rather, both sides are culpable. However, as it is the Palestinians who have had their land expropriated by the Zionists, many of us "lefties" tend to feel slightly more sympathy for them than the Zionist aggressors, regardless of any religious considerations.

Punter, all I can now ask of you as a qualified historian, have you any qualifications to take the Israeli side leaving the Arabs as just low life, the way you express, or if you have not, might pay you to do a strong study on not only the Palestinian problem but the whole Middle East post-colonial problem.

The crackpots supporting Hamas - a TERRORIST organisation - must be glad that they live in a country like Austalia where there is freedom of speech, unlike Hamas's Palestine and other Islamic states.

Punter
Every time you metaphorically open your mouth, you betray yourself.

If someone says to me "I am not a racist, many of my friends are black, but ...." something in my brain tells me "careful, this person sounds to me like a racist in denial".

Similarly, if someone writes that they have met Muslims (you say 99% were males, so by implication you have met close to 100; if you had only met ten, one of whom was female you would have said 90%; or you are loose with the truth) and you have not been able to find one "friend" among them, those little receptor cells in my brain tells me there is a deep ingrown prejudice about to be revealed.

Despite all the protestations by your arch enemies (the dreaded "lefties") that they have sympathy for the Israelis as well as the Palestinians (and even Hamas), you carry on, screeching like the proverbial banshee, clearly unable to "listen" and screech at the same time.

Your Jan16 post ("What else do lefty apologists for terrorist outfits like Hamas need to know? The sooner Hamas is eradicated; the sooner Gazans can be freed from their torment." reveals you as a fanatical right winger, just as dangerous as the other extremists whom you savage and disparage.

Sit back and relax, contemplate your navel, engage in some introspection, re-read your posts. Do you think you make a positive contribution to the world? Are you a good role model for others, especially children?

I cannot speak for other "lefties" in this forum, but I can assure you that I think about these issues a lot, and this is possibly why I try to show a lot of compassion and respect for others. I might not agree with others, but will still seek a fair and just approach to problem resolution, and not cry "Death to all who disagree".

This does not mean that I will not endorse military resolution if all else has failed. But last resort means last resort.

It doesn't make me perfect, but it makes me feel better.

Now that Israel has declared a unilateral cease fire, it will be interesting to see the reaction of Hamas. Will they now give up their terrorist activities and start to rebuild their society physically and economically for the benefit of the people of Gaza? Will they stop spending all their money on arms and rockets? Will they stop their smuggling operations? Will they stop firing rockets into Israel?
Or will they just keep trying to destroy Israel as they state in their charter?

punter,

your attempts to portray critics of Israel as anti-semitic are tedious and clumsy. I'll paraphrase Dr Johnson and say that accusations of anti-semitism are the first refuge of uncritical supporters of Israel. For the record, I think that Islam is a ridiculous superstition and that Islamic societies are primitive, however, unlike you, my personal likes and dislikes are irrelevant to any analysis of the ethical issues involved in Israel's relations with the Palestinians. Do you only allow human rights to those you agree with or find congenial to your prejudices?

Your other egregious error is the equation that Hamas= the Palestinian people as a group. I and other people posting on this site have pointed out that Israel gets the Hamas it deserves.