Thank you for dusting off the Domino Theory, dear Phillip Tang.

Fortunately, you are as inconsequential as I am.

The unfortunate aspect is that you are clearly swayed by a theory which can be seen from a Moslem perspective as well. Many devout Moslems could justifiably argue that their own lands are falling one after the other, as the US and its allies wield their influence by force and subterfuge.

I wonder about the validity of this domino theory, this model, beyond its virulence as a self-fulfilling prophecy.

One clear and present danger lies it its ability spark hatred and vilification - phrases such as:

"In fighting Islamists one should bomb their mosques, religious schools, assassinate their leaders and throw acid on the faces of those who attend their mosques. This is what they are doing to school girls in Pakistan and Afghanistan. It’s good to let them taste their own medicine."

Philip, if you feel so strongly about this, perhaps you could join the IDF, or if that's out of the question, become a mercenary soldier, warring against "Militant Islam" in Iraq or some other theatre. Given the right opportunity, you could act on your own impulses and add to the carnage, or at least the cruelty.

(bigmal): ‘But of course if [SJF] had half a brain he would google the Hams Charter and after having a quiet read realise what disingenuous nonsense that is.’

To me, the real disingenuous nonsense is to be found in the 100s of websites that use cherry-picked quotes from the Charter to portray Hamas as an organisation purely devoted to destroying Israel and killing every Jew in existence.

Crucial to understanding the anti-Jew feeling of some aspects of the Hamas Charter is the tragic context in which it was written - the aftermath of the first Intifida of 1987. This was a largely peaceful resistance movement comprising mass protests, general strikes, boycotts and civil disobedience – which was brutally put down by the Israeli military, leaving thousands of Palestinian youths dead.

In light of these events, the Charter is surprisingly restrained in its hatred. In light of these last few weeks, some of its rhetoric is chillingly real:

‘The Nazism of the Jews does not skip women and children, it scares everyone. They make war against people's livelihood, plunder their moneys and threaten their honor. In their horrible actions they mistreat people like the most horrendous war criminals.’ (Article 20)

‘The Nazi Zionist practices against our people will not last the lifetime of their invasion, for "states built upon oppression last only one hour, states based upon justice will last until the hour of Resurrection." (Article 31)

‘[Hamas] values every kind word, every devoted effort and every commendable endeavor. It closes the door before marginal quarrels, it does not heed rumors and biased statements, and it is aware of the right of self-defense.’ (Article 25)

… As is the United Nations Charter, Article 51 (6):

‘The right to resist finds application within the framework of the right of legitimate defense because "a state which forcibly subjugates a people to colonial or alien domination is committing an unlawful act as defined by international law, and the subject people, in the exercise of its inherent right of self-defense, may fight to defend and attain its right to self-determination.

Philip Tang, I will probably kick myself for wasting this opportunity to post. Polycarp will probably come back with some more straw man arguments I will have to refute, and I will find myself without the opportunity. Or maybe Polycarp has been banned in his new guise as well.

But for now, let me take issue with you.

"It’s good to let them taste their own medicine", you say. This, and other sections of your post shows you up to be one of those "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" type of people.

Whilst not exactly neanderthal, it is pretty old fashioned and one would hope out of date and inappropriate in this day and age.

Has the "Enlightenment" completely passed you by?

SJF, It doesnt matter what accomodating and soft words etc, that Hamas also says in the Charter, the plain unalterable fact is that their venonmous hatred and specific intentions are given very clear expression.

One doesnt cancel the other out.

But what is really disturbung is the extent to which most this venom, and blatant anti semiticism in the Charter, has it its origins in the actual words and phrases of the Koran itself.

Until Islam disavows its anti semitic roots and propensity to violence against the Kuffars, and gives up on this idiot notion that any land previously captured by the forces of Islam must forever remain Islamic (even going back to the 7th century) then there is no solution.

Bigmal

'... the plain unalterable fact is that [the Hamas Charter's] venonmous hatred and specific intentions are given very clear expression./One doesnt cancel the other out.'

I don't know about that. These might ...

Yossef Weitz (1940): “The Arabs should go!”

David Ben-Gurion (1948): "We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."

Ariel Sharon (1998): "It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonization or Jewish state without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."

Ehert Olmert (2006): "I believed and to this day still believe, in our people's eternal and historic right to this entire land."

These quotes are to be found at the UK media watchdog site, Media Lens, which also contains a list of citations for their origins:

http://www.medialens.org/alerts/index.php ('An eye for an eyelash: The Gaza massacre Parts I & II)

SJF I appreciate your reference to the medialens site. That is a good one.Thanks.

But I still think there is a big difference between what has been said by the Israelis and others over time, and what is embedded in the Koran.

Ohlmerts et al views will die out and amount to nothing, but the Koranic basis will go on forever with increasing numbers of mad mullahs making sure that their interpretation of the ummah etc is pressed with ever increasing ferocity.

Ohlmerts et al statements dont carry the supposed impramata of being the immutable word of some deity.

Dont forget also that these people are so screwed up they believe that the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is true, and not a work of fiction created in about 1895 --it even rates a mention in the Hamas charter for gods sake