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The Forum > Article Comments > Israel and Gaza - a testament to terrible failure > Comments

Israel and Gaza - a testament to terrible failure : Comments

By Richard Hil, published 6/1/2009

Bombing Gaza is a testament to international policy failure under which the rights of Palestinians have been systematically trampled.

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As a qualified political scientist and historian in my mature age, Richard, feel you are spot on with your appraisal.

Yet as with myself, Richard, you are probably not surprised at times to be called dangerously left-wing.

Yet though an agrararian activist during the Great Depression, still like to feel to be middle of the road between our two Aussie major parties.

What concerns me so much right now, Richard, is indeed the tendency to go too far right instead of staying centre, which has certainly also proven the way with George W Bush et al, and the tendency to protect small dangerously armed little nations like Israel instead of having a United Nations not at the beck and call of the world's strongest power but by a Kantian-style Federation of Nations.

As one going on 88, might say that the foresight of today's leaders could do well to be straightened out by the historical insight usually only found as even the Greeks might have said, in democratic academia.
Posted by bushbred, Tuesday, 6 January 2009 10:32:03 AM
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Let's be clear on something.

Hamas is not concerned with the welfare of Palestinians. Hamas' goal is to kill Jews. In fact Hamas is more explicit about its genocidal intentions towards Jews than Hitler was in Mein Kampf.

Here is a link to a website that displays an English translation of the Hamas charter:


"Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. ….The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realised."

And what does "vanquishing" the Jews mean to Hamas? What is "Allah's victory?"

From the charter:

"…the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem)."

You can't get much more explicit than that.

Everything Hamas does is consistent with its charter. Hamas' rocket and mortar fire into Israel is not a political strategy. It is for now at least, the best option Hamas has for carrying out its program of killing Jews. The fact that it is an ineffectual option does not alter the intent.

It is arguable that the very ineffectualness of the Hamas rocket attacks betrays the intent. Why bother to do something so counter-productive unless your goal is to take advatange advantage of any opportunity, no matter how slight, to kill Jews?

Posted by stevenlmeyer, Tuesday, 6 January 2009 10:59:51 AM
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BUSHBRED..... with all due respect for your advanced years and considerable study.... what is wrong with you?

From the Article:

<<Australian journalist, Antony Lowenstein, states that the bombing of civilians is a war crime>>

GOOD.. he realizes that the 6000 rockets launched at Israeli women and children in Southern Israel is.. A WAR CRIME... has he condemned these?

BUSHY.. can YOU condemn Hamas as loudly as you are condemning Israel?

If you want to be BALANCED there is a simple way of doing it:

1/ Speak about BOTH sides..not just the Israelis.
2/ Speak about the actual objectives AND methods of each side.

Steven has pointed out clearly..unmistakably the ugly genocidal terrorist basis of HAMAS.. I've been doing the same thing in various posts in many threads over the past few days and on many occasion over years....

BUT... is it thickheadedness or denial which prevents you and various others from UNDERSTANDING that 'obliterate/kill' means just that!

MOTIVE.. "Hamas motive is to kill as many Jews of any age as they can."

METHOD... it is to launch explosive rockets indiscriminantly at population centres without regard for accuracy.. ie... they JUST want to KILL JEWS.

IF... IF...IF the Israeli military adopted the SAME motives and methods it would be 'game over' in about a week... Gaza would be no more.

I'm afraid I have to become quite bold here and actually REBUKE you.. yes.. REBUKE...and the author and all those who deny the difference in motive and method of the 2 sides.

In the NAME OF TRUTH I rebuke..... all those who do NOT admit that the Hamas Charter is...IS.. a document for GENOCIDE.

In the name of BALANCE I rebuke all those who only focus on the immediate tragic consequences of the attack on Gaza withOUT paying equal regard to the attacks on Israel with rockets.

I feel the Israeli government would simply be giving the middle finger salute to the morons who don't see this as it really is.
Posted by Polycarp, Tuesday, 6 January 2009 11:51:46 AM
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Unconscionable or at Odds.

Shellshocked and we project Panic.

If Australia cant do something to stop this slaughter there is no point in any of our self-respecting slogans. Fair Go - Hopefulness - Mindfulness - Inclusiveness.... Problem Solving.... Our own Dream of a Better World is turned in on itself. It is WE as Fake.

Accepting this Bloodbath in Gaza as Okay is INSANITY. Like shooting Bufflalo who it is known rarely charge less provoked. Whose hoodwinked, starring stupefied, benumbed?

No matter what you believe, the unstable world is today, reflecting its own truth. Be it our role in Africa, or our Issues with the differences between understanding the troubles inside the Arab World.

Mr Rudd was our last hope for Change.

We can do no more when we are surrounded by War after War after War.

The Moment IS NOW.

Milions and Millions and Millions of people dying, laying sick on this planet.

The rise of insurgence is about their own sense of survival. They do plea for our grace. Equity. Inter-cultural understanding. Their pleas are mocked, they are treated by us with mere riddicle.

Our life in 'mainstream' antics seen as more by one saved over theirs and, we wonder why they have taken underground mask to arms.

We conquor and divide.

The Lip Service around overcoming social ills we are ourselves are creating, is pityless, upityness and shameful.

As many, many, many, many layman, citizens, normal peoples including Jeanette Winterson, Judith Wright and Boineers tell us we are [with knowledge] at the 'leading edge of breakthrough solutions to the global ecological and social collapse imperiling our world.


This is our inconvenient truth. All Bets are Off without the struggle, unless this violence in Gaza is Stopped - Now!

I don't care whose fault it is, I have a critical ear for both sides and the issue is Equities at two sides of the Coin.
Posted by miacat, Tuesday, 6 January 2009 12:17:17 PM
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This is indeed an objective look at the situation. And I tend to agree that the Middle East is today a blot on western civility and or civilization. People are indeed the or should be the central focus not two recalcitrant political groupings pride.

Do you really believe that if Homas were to alter thee 'genocidal intents' anything would change? I speak here of the 500K Jews who illegally occupy Palestinian lands? Time for a clear head.

Do you understand rhetoric and its purpose? Israel gives daily to the radical hot heads reason to continue the jihad. You ignore the vast majority of Palestinians who just want justice and peace.

Likewise it’s tacit support to the extremist settlers who want all of Palestine encourages these zealots to push the envelope.

I am not anti Jew/Israel just their hypocritical intent in this area.

Need I point out to you that this is Australia and that such irrational outbursts hardy help THIS country and its inter racial concerns.

My daughter is Jewish but after living in Israel for some years has returned in her words “so long as Israel continues with its racist policies I will never return or support them….I am an Aussie and my allegiance is here.”

Your fear of all things Muslim no matter how expressed is extreme, irrational and dogma based. Some time you should sit down with the Bible and underline all genocidal commands it contains. If you believe the letter of the law as you seem to claim (no room for variation) then yours and Steven's God is indeed a bloodthirsty ghoul one hardly worthy of worship... By your standards there is little difference between the Greek and Nordic pantheons (change the sundry gods to angels,saints etc)...then again I suspect its your flawed interpretations that are at fault.
Posted by examinator, Tuesday, 6 January 2009 12:28:13 PM
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Wake up, Polycarp, why we knock Israel so much, is that she has become a tiny nation with too much power, including the latest in nuclear warheads - while the Arabs only have the odd rocket, the difference probably a half dozen kills for the Arabs, and possibly fifty times as much for the Israelis.

Further, as you already know, our academic advice is to encourage nations to do what the United Nations was originally formed to do, not just to rely on one strong nation like America, but by all truly democratic nations, which now should include most Eastern nations.

Finally, Polycarp, still please remember that it was a Jew and Israeli supporter Henry Kissinger, who as US Minister of State at the time, warned Richard Nixon that to allow a nuclear armed Israel was only asking for a torrid ME future between Jews and Arabs -

and possibly a WW3, one could add.

Regards, BB, WA.
Posted by bushbred, Tuesday, 6 January 2009 12:59:11 PM
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