Philip Tang

You are quite right when you say that it was previously a politcal question but is now an Islamic one.

There have been several articles recently in OLO about Islamophobia as though it is something one shouldnt discuss but there is all the evidence us to show that there are very good grounds for being wary--very wary.

The Hamas Charter on its own makes for very disturbing reading. Just one snippet, involving the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

"Article 32

Today it is Palestine, tomorrow it will be one country or another. The Zionist plan is limitless. After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."

Now you would have to be seriously delusional to believe whats written in a work of fiction. But then, isnt that what the koran is, so I guess its not so surprising.

But wait there is more.(Courtesy of MAC on another thread)

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=library&page=daceykoproske_29_1

This is what the Islamists are trying to do to the UN Declaration on Human Rights, and the way they have gone about it.

Me thinks the world is going back to the dark ages, and the Isrealis are the only ones, at the moment, with the balls and the brains to try to stop it, in their area of influence at least.

Go Israel.

Dear Polycarp,

I agree with you on one thing:

"Those who don't get it should not even discuss
the matter!"

Hear! Hear!

In your entire rant what I find depressing
is that the Palestinian people don't rate
a mention. But I guess I should not be
surprised. Your anti-Muslim mantra always
over-rides all reason. You're always
consistent in your attacks.

As Antony Loewenstein tells us, in,
"My Israel Question," ...

"It is politically and morally convenient
for Zionist groups to continue to portray Israel as
'disenfranchised' rather than as a global power."

..."Arabs are continually associated
with terrorism and violence, being primitive and
anti-Western...it is unpopular to support the
Palestinians... it is an uphill battle for
Australians to unlearn years of Zionist
propaganda...

"People seem to make no distinction between an
occupied people and those who occupy them.
Israel talks about the right of self-defence.
How can an occupier claim self-defence but
deny the same right to those who are occupied
and have the right of self-defence with whatever
means available to them."

Loewenstein asks us to, "hope for a day when Zionists will
cease using Israel's 'security,' or the
Holocaust, or the 'war on terror' to justify and
excuse actions that are routinely condemned when
committed by any other country..."

"Most Israelis, like the Palestinians, simply want to
live in peace and security, though successive leaders,
in Israel and the Diaspora, seem determined to undermine
this possibility. Many, have a vested interest in
prolonging the conflict. Israel opposes a resolution
to the conflict because it opposes the presence of
another people on land it has claimed as exclusively
for Jews..."

The real challenge Loewenstein says,
"is to persuade our political leaders
and news media to listen to voices that challenge their
prejudices and preconceptions."

"The establishment of an independent, Palestinian state
is inevitable, but it won't happen easily, not without
the involvement of many caring people."

"Neither side has a monopoly on suffering but only
one side has the power to end the occupation and to
recognise that Israel and Palestine are historically
destined to share the same homeland."

How sad to see some of these posts. It is clear that the fanaticism displayed by Hamas, Ahmadinejad, the Israeli leadership and others, exists here in these posts and the only "final solution" some can perceive is death to the opposition.
I find it peculiarly strange and sad to see that the children of the survivors of the holocaust see the obliteration of Hamas as their way forward.
The indications of neo-nazism as displayed in these posts does not augur well for the future.

cont'd

The credibility of Antony Loewenstein has been
raised by several posters on this thread.

I would like to respond.

The author has impeccable credentials.
He is a distinguished journalist and author.
An expert on Middle East and North African Studies.
He has written for, The Sydney Morning Herald,
The Sun-Herald, The Australian, The Bulletin,
Crikey, Znet, New Matilda and Counterpunch.
His book, "My Israel Question," is required
reading for all HSC students.

As Dr Ilan Pappe, Senior Lecturer at the
University of Haifa, Israel, and author of
'A History of Modern Palestine,' says:

"My Israel Question" will serve as an essential
guide for those who dare to criticise Zionist
wrongdoing in the past and Israeli policies in
the present, without being deterred by false
allegations of antisemitism."

Personal attacks against such an author say more
about the person making the attacks than they do
about the author.

I have just received this email from a cousin in London:

"...the whole thing makes me sick - can't either side see that nothing works other than by talking? It's all so pathetic and tribal, and you can certainly feel the anti-semitism building up in England. It's mainly about the whole bloody scale of it. I still can't forget that dreadful 'shock and awe' thing which Bush and co. did; and everyone watched it on tv like a firework display, never mind the fact that citizens were underneath it all, and amidst it."

The only thing this article tells me as an Australian is that we don't need either of these two cultures in our country. Allowing them in, is just importing problems. Let them fight it out between themselves. I am sick of seeing masses of comments whenever a topic concerning Israel is posted. There are obviously too many people in Australia with divided loyalties. Go home and sort out your own problems, don't bring them here.