...ctd

Finkelstein tells his Anne Frankstory because he wants us “to understand Israel”. He makes no effort to make us understand the plight of the Palestinians or the hatred of the Hamas militants. So though you might reckon the article is “well reasoned and moderate”, it is certainly not balanced.

He is being a little loose with the truth when he claims that Israel is ”no longer in Gaza, having withdrawn unilaterally and taken the settlers with it”. Israel still controls borders, taxes, airspace, supply of goods etc. Israel did not withdraw out of the goodness of its heart, or as part of an established peace plan, so the argument carries “furphy” writ large.

To his credit, Finkelstein admits: “Israel has made many mistakes. It has acted too aggressively on some occasions, has been too defensive on others. The country hasn't always respected the human rights of its enemies as it should have done.”

If only you and Matangi could recognise this, then a better debate could have ensued.

The courage of Anne Frank, the defenseless little girl in the face of arrogance, bigotry and people who convinced themselves that killing was justified exists in other parts of the world today. Think about it.

Bushbred, I was not having a go at you concerning anything. Matangi berated UOG because of his inability to write “proper English”, yet Matangi was shown he too wrote poorly. I laughed at him because of his hypocrisy. Still, hypocrisy is surely better than threats to shoot (now removed by the moderator), no matter how jocular. Many brilliant people use poor spelling and poor grammar, but in informal discussions such as this, it matters not a whit, provided the point is made clear.

PhilipTang
You are right. But I have been suggesting negotiating with Abbas and marginalising Hamas (refer post 8Jan,7:57pm). There has been plenty of opportunity for Israel to do this over the past couple of years. It is so frustrating that you criticise me in this way without reading or understanding what you are criticising. The right to comment carries other obligations.

Near the end of my tether, have become truly ashamed at the way not only the way the national media but the way our OLO has been hidng the real truth behind the ME Arab Israeli problem.
It is so interesting that it has taken the chief journalist of our only newspaper, the WEST AUSTRALIAN to allow in letter s from veterans revealing the historical happening that caused the melee certainly only now getting bloody worse.
Talking to the chief journo’ it seems that the three letters from three different old-timers over the last week or so, reveal that the major historical mistake was not so much the break-up between the UK and the US, but that the US failed to carry out the British plan to grant equal amounts of Palestine to both Jews and Arabs.
Further in a fourth letter from John H May of Collie, he goes on to say -
‘That when one considers the trillions of dollars on arming Israel up to this time, just ten percent of that could have created a Palestinian paradise for both participants along with its subsequent influence on future world peace’.
Finally, I’d suggest that not only our not very gallant OLO’s look to their media and historical facts better, but might say the same about the management.
Cheers, BB, Buntine, WA

Have my antagonists mostly given up? Have they decided there is nothing more to say, or have I converted them? Conversions are rarely instant, but perhaps I have given them food for thought.

People often say “you can’t do this” or “this will never happen”, and with the Middle East conflict having lasted this long, who can’t understand the pessimism? But Libya is now a friendly country, and look at the eventual triumph of Mahatma Ghandi, and then Martin Luther King.

Too often we see things through a narrow view point. The original article from which these comments flowed made this point. We are more likely to believe Israel because we still have some sympathy for them, they are strongly supported by US, many of them speak English, we are closer to them culturally than to “the other side”. The Australian Jewry has paid for columnists from the Sydney Morning Herald, The Australian and possibly others to go to Israel to get the story from their side. The Israelis’ Public Relations machine has been working flat out with Mark Regev (who was born and lived much of his life in Australia) the Israelis’ voice in Australia and NZ, always ready to be interviewed. He sounds like one of us, so we are more likely to believe him.

Whenever there is conflict, it is much easier to blame “the other side” and say nasty things to denigrate them which are so easy to believe because we hate/dislike them already. It is now taken as a fact that Hamas hide amongst civilians, and The Australian cartoon even showed a Hamas member telling the baby to stop crying because he was giving his position away. There is no evidence that Hamas is treating civilians (supporters?) in this way, only allegations. Israel won’t let the international press into Gaza. It is quite possible, even probable, that the Hamas militants are mingling with civilians. They would be mad to group themselves together in camp allowing one well placed bomb to wipe out their whole resistance against what they see as a “nazi-like” tyranny.
tbc....

..continued...
So easy to blame the US, and I do. The US has become what it is today by seizing anything it wants; against the original inhabitants (painted by Hollywood as the “baddies” as they fought for their rights and lands); against the Mexican/Spaniards who held Mexico and California. About 25% of US Presidents have a military background, and we all know how much store they put on having “God on their side” (we need a Bob Dylan revival). The US can properly be described as imperialist.

The US formula for peace has ever been “kill the opposition”, and they have stood idly by with the sycophantic “Israel has every right to protect itself’ without any reference to the fact that perhaps the other side has rights too. Remember, it was not US diplomacy which got Gaddafi to renounce opposition to the west, but European diplomacy. US policy is not to talk to Iran, Hamas (and at most times Arafat), and even Castro, on the basis that Cuba is run by a revolutionary government (as is the US if you want to take it that far!)

Let us hope that Obama, with probably a superior knowledge of what it is like to come from the “wrong side of the tracks”, and has more compassion than his predecessors for an alternative view point will bring about that change. He has already told us he is willing to talk to Ahmadinejad.

The US has shown us that it can be a “great” country particularly from a technological position. Its social mores are far different from what I would like, but it is only 40+ years since the race riots, and though the non-whites still suffer, the US has been able to regenerate and renew itself amazingly in that time.

We must always hope, and do our best to strive toward peace and reconciliation – as Ghandi and King showed us - by peaceful methods, not by falling to brutal militarism.

I have made many sweeping statements in this piece, and I know many of them are arguable. Constructive comments most welcome.

Dear Harry G

"Libya is now a friendly country" errr.. yep.. after the USA bombed the blith out of them....they had an amazing turnaround of attitude :)

No one to blame for problems in the Israel/Palestine thing? Oooooh yes there is.

1/ Israel has no drama/problems with the Arabs withIN Israel.... (apart from their verbal whining).. Israel has little trouble from Fatah controlled West bank regions. (more than Israeli Arabs but much much less than Gaza megalomaniacs)

2/ Israel has peace with Jordan..Egypt..and Syria... even though Syria is moaning about the Golan Heights.

3/ ISRAEL HAS NO PEACE with HAMAS.

a) Hamas continues to send war crime rockets against Israeli towns in ever INcreasing ranges.
b) Hamas has never renounced it's genocidal charter.
i)Islam must Obliterate Israel.
ii) Muslims must kill the Jews

So... there is someone to blame..and it's HAMAS with their theological basis. "The world and all that is in it belongs to Allah and his messenger" and "Palestine became an Islamic Waqf ever since it was conquered by force" (by the Caliph Omar in 637)

You should also realize that SPAIN is considered an 'Islamic Waqf' by orthodox Islamic theology.....and thus for even the most moderate of Muslims it comes under the verses which call for WAR against those who have 'cast you out of your homes'..... the PROBlem with Islamic theology..is that it does not recognize when ISLAM cast people out of THEIR homes.. such as in Spain and in Palestine when Catholics and Jews were displaced by invading Moors and Arabs.

As long as this theological foundation exists.. there is really only one solution... a 'final and absolute' one, humanly speaking.

Harry G, though we have not been getting on so well, possibly because of my rough bush background, could still reckon we both look more through the middle road true academic historical pathway.

Thus would like your opinion on my yesterdays post on this thread regarding opinions from ME veterans published in our WEST AUSTRALIAN newspaper, backing up the argument that the prime cause of Palestinian problems was the US arrogantly not only pushing Britain out of the way, but strongly favouring the new Israel, pretty well leaving the Palestinians out in the cold.

Also it seems both the chief WEST' journo' and the editor give credit to the veteran's historical quotations.

Cheers - BB, WA