Dear Bushbasher

You state: “if you really want to tackle animal cruelty, then your time would be better spent discussing corporatisation of meat production.”

Oh but I do Bushbasher as you well know. I am motivated by environmental concerns and a call to mercy. What would your motive be? I would suggest you’re savage because corporations have put a dent in your profits as a small farmer but no doubt there are many rural gentlemen who don tiaras and black lacy suspenders to seek comfort in the "arms" of their livestock.

“you can't understand that the moral issues of incest are distinct from the moral issues of bestiality?” No what is that distinction Bushbasher? Is it because animals don’t speak your lingo? After all, they too are vulnerable, they too lack the ability to give consent and they too are victims of physical and sexual abuse. However, without human intervention, there is far more law and order in the animal kingdom than the dark place in which you reside.

“2) i'd say an example of that is your describing "people under 18" as children. teenagers may not be legally adults, but they're not children either. they don't have children's bodies, or desires, or questions. like it or not, they are going to stumble through and experiment.”

My you do live in la la land Bushbasher and how selective are you? What do you suggest for the 5 and 6 year olds who are computer literate but don’t care much for reading - they just like to look at “pretty” pictures. On which planet do you reside?

Following is a survey for the Marquis de Sades, the narcissists and the hedonists. And no, it’s not about “a few sexually abused swedish horses....” It’s an Australian survey for sexual predators who dwell in subterranean hidey holes.

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:pNqcIbWxHqoJ:www.opinion.com.au/4889_Does_beastiality_(sex_with_animals)_turn_you_on%253F.htm+australians+bestiality+charges&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=au&lr=lang_en

“I've never left my partner bruised, battered or bow-legged. Just in a state of blissful satisfaction, with a smile that won't go away……”

Funguschumley - take your hand off it.

1) "then your time would be better spent discussing corporatisation of meat production.” "Oh but I do Bushbasher as you well know".

o.k. i do now. it doesn't change the facts that:
a) animal cruelty due to sexual abuse is trivial in comparison to other forms of animal abuse;
b) it's a red herring. you're pretending to condone bestiality if there is no abuse?

2) “you can't understand that the moral issues of incest are distinct from the moral issues of bestiality?” "No what is that distinction Bushbasher?"

family members can offer consent. the question is whether that consent has legal weight, and whether the laws of incest reflect accepted notions of morality. if you think the morality and legality of incest is clear, you're kidding yourself.

animals cannot consent. we are responsible for the welfare of our animals, and necessarily make decisions for them. why you think that automatically precludes bestiality, any more than it precludes taking fido for a walk, is beyond me.

3)"i'd say an example of that is your describing "people under 18" as children." "My you do live in la la land Bushbasher and how selective are you?"

i was responding to chandralekha, who was discussing teenagers: who's being selective here? i have no problem talking about 5 year olds and 6 year olds. are you proposing that we filter the internet of everything only suitable for 7 year olds?

dickie, perhaps you should froth a little less, lower the moral outrage, and work towards coming up with a cogent argument. you can start easy: maybe debate some of those 5 year olds and see how you go.

You circumcised my words about blowing my own trumpet, little dickie. If you have a repressed fantasy about being battered and bruised, it's not one I'd choose to satisfy. See a shrink, or you may like to watch a film like the Piano Teacher with parental guidance. Your tone and moral superiority is the biggest wank here.

"the OLO prude contingent"

CJ, there's nothing prudish about objecting to the way in which pornography objectifies and exploits women. As pointed out by chandralekha, the vast bulk of pornography depicts women in the mode of 'passive dominated object', their own interests completely subordinated and lost in an obsessive sea of penis worship.

I'm no prude. I've no objection to CONSENSUAL couples using pornography to enhance their relationship if that's what they BOTH agree to. No doubt there's some evocative material out there that is of a high standard. But, gee, you would need to know where to look to find it. From both an artistic and intellectual perspective, most of what's available truly emanates from the gutter end of the spectrum.

The problem with internet pornography is the sheer scale and the unfettered proliferation of endless masses of this crass and tasteless rubbish, so much of which openly and unashamedly exploits, degrades and objectifies women, children and animals. How someone of your sensibility and intellect can defend the right of this garbage to a life is absolutely beyond me, CJ.

Bronwyn wrote:

"The problem with internet pornography is the sheer scale and the unfettered proliferation of endless masses of this crass and tasteless rubbish, so much of which openly and unashamedly exploits, degrades and objectifies women, children and animals. How someone of your sensibility and intellect can defend the right of this garbage to a life is absolutely beyond me, CJ."

Dear Bronwyn,

You have made a criticism not of pornography alone but of popular culture in general.

Rock music sounds to me mostly like a cacophony of tasteless thumps. Waiting for a light to change at an intersection I often hear boompa-boompa-boompa from an nearby car's loudspeaker. There is a genre called country music which laments man's sorrows concerning women, drink and motor vehicles. TV has a plethora of mindless sitcoms. Mills & Boon novels carry an unreal idea of romantic relationships. However, I defend the right of those who wish to subject themselves to this tasteless rubbish to do so. Why single out the tasteless rubbish which is much of pornography?

Yes, the solution is to bring back the rhythms of Gershwin, the wit of Cole Porter, the music of Mozart, the plays of Shakespeare and to produce tasteful and rubbish free pornography. How are we to implement this? How will we get people to appreciate it?

Bushbasher

“animal cruelty due to sexual abuse is trivial in comparison to other forms of animal abuse;” “Trivial” BB? So that makes it acceptable eh?

“ it's a red herring. you're pretending to condone bestiality if there is no abuse?” Such stupefying swill!

Bestiality in Australia is unlawful. Whether suffering occurs or not, bestiality is abuse and a criminal act. State legislation is in place throughout the nation.

In NSW under the Crimes Act Section 79, any person who commits an act of bestiality with any animal shall be liable to imprisonment for fourteen years. Under Section 80, any person who attempts to commit an act of bestiality with any animal shall be liable to imprisonment for five years.

In Victoria under Section 59 the penality is 5 years maximum imprisonment.

I trust your duplicitous (or ignorant) statement on incest does not impress on others BB. Incest is unlawful – a criminal act.

In no Australian state or territory is consent a defence to the crime of incest. A conviction for incest attracts a maximum penalty of imprisonment for 7 years in SA, 20 years in WA and the ACT, 25 years in the NT, Victoria, Tasmania, and New South Wales, and life imprisonment in Queensland.

I reiterate, the topic of the IT filtering proposal is a live TRIAL. There is no legislation in place but the recalcitrant dictators are gearing up for protest marches.

The trial is not dissimilar to the daylight saving trial in WA - a three-year period which commenced in December 2006. The trial gives Western Australians (some reluctantly) an opportunity to “try before they buy” and a referendum will be held in 2009.

The opponents (bordering on the hysterical) to an Internet trial are not lobbying for a democratic referendum. Indeed not, these dictators tell us that citizens are NOT entitled to a TRIAL of only six weeks duration.

It is democracy which is being censored here Bushbasher, when you and others accuse me of what you, yourselves, are doing. Nice try!