dickie: << A national petition has been launched, supported by equestrians anxious about the number of cases of people who clamber over farm fences at night and attempt to rape female horses. >>

Cripes. I'd better install razor wire and electric fences lest there's some Swedes among the backpackers!

I thought dickie's earlier comment was pretty funny, but the image of libidinous Swedes "clambering" over my fences to have their wicked ways with the horses is hilarious.

Thanks dickie. I'm very glad that people like you are vocal supporters of this idiocy.

David

My point has always been ... this thread was not just about pornography or Clive Hamilton. Deny it if you want, but these little tete-e-tetes further demonstrate this is the case.

Now, I'm going to a demo and I've already signed Getup's petition. There will be many against this draconian internet filtering proposal, including totalitarians and anarchists (you will even see the delusional and those in denial - see original post).

See you there?

dickie,

1) you don't have god on your side because you're defending your rights, and neither do i. you have god on your side because you presume your stance to have unquestionable moral virtue.

2) if people want to screw up their internet, that's fine with me. the issue here is of *mandatory* filtering, of their screwing up *my* internet.

3) stop pretending that your issue with bestiality is one of animal welfare. if you really want to tackle animal cruelty, then your time would be better spent discussing corporatisation of meat production. by comparison, a few sexually abused swedish horses is an absolutely trivial issue.

and to imply that my contention that bestiality is a moral beat-up is to somehow condone animal abuse is ludicrous.

4) you can't understand that the moral issues of incest are distinct from the moral issues of bestiality? you must have an interesting family.

Dickie,

It is good to see that there are still loyal supporters of the National Enquirer and other reiable sources.

Get a life

dickie, how does your statistic show that we are rapidly descending into acceptance of bestiality. Sick people have been molesting animals since we were animals, and we'll never know in what numbers. But please don't put loving worship at the holy gates in the same category. Although, I must be doing it wrong - I've never left my partner bruised, battered or bow-legged. Just in a state of blissful satisfaction, with a smile that won't go away. But, hey, I'm blowing my own trumpet...

"Let me tell you stud,
You're life's been wasted,
Till you've got down on your knees and tasted,
A red-headed woman..." - Bruce Springsteen

Thank someone for the internet, Q&A? It was Al Gore wasn't it?

chandralekha,

1) it is not that the "think of the children" argument doesn't in general have merit. but it is hugely easy to overplay. so, janet jackson accidentally reveals a tit, and america acts like satan has started his rule. i don't believe children are nearly as fragile as some would suggest.

2) i'd say an example of that is your describing "people under 18" as children. teenagers may not be legally adults, but they're not children either. they don't have children's bodies, or desires, or questions. like it or not, they are going to stumble through and experiment.

that doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned about teenagers' and children's access to and approach to sex and drugs. but it does mean it will always have a howling at the moon aspect. and i doubt that any governmental controls will ever be as meaningful as proper parental guidance and supervision. i'd suggest it's less a matter of pretending these things don't exist in the world, and more a matter of fostering a healthy reaction to their existence.

3) i don't know how sexual practices of teenagers (and adults) have been altered by pornography, or the general sexual permissivness. but, unlike you, i do not presume that any such alteration is for the worse.

for one, i am very happy that our culture now tells people, especially women, that they are allowed to like sex. that it's supposed to be fun, even when not loving. and that it's not dirty. this is a huge step forward. and i doubt very much that today's women are more sexually passive than in times past.

and as for particular sexual practices? again, oral sex used to be illegal. now, it's compulsory! (that's a joke, joyce). whatever sexual practices people are now engaging in, i would presume they are generally enjoying them, unless someone provides clear evidence otherwise.