An 83 yr old pornographer? Each to their own I suppose.

You obviously don't know Voltaire. I've had to study him and his works.

What do you think of his meetings with small groups of students, teachers and clergy discussing and writing poetry and prose against the state's censorship laws, or how he was incarcerated for it - all in the name of freedom of speech?

Q&A wrote:

What do you think of his meetings with small groups of students, teachers and clergy discussing and writing poetry and prose against the state's censorship laws, or how he was incarcerated for it - all in the name of freedom of speech?

Dear Q&A,

I’m quite aware of Voltaire’s devotion to freedom of speech and think it admirable. He defended Rousseau’s right to promote his ideas even though he disagreed with those ideas.

However, you referred to Voltaire as an anarchist. Being for freedom of speech does not make a person an anarchist.

Please cite the writing or acts of Voltaire which shows his anarchism.

dickie, your response is absurd.

1) i don't believe there is "public moral indifference to the exploitation of children". but if there is, how is it connected to the current argument? child sex sites are already banned. internet filtering will not address that. and if it did, it would fail miserably.

2) you are wrong. i am not "a male speaking for his own pleasures", certainly not primarily. i'm not thrilled with popular tastes for pornography. or for macdonalds. or for the mind rotting swill on tv. i'm not at all pleased with the insular and nihilistic choices of modern society. but, people have a right to make what i regard as bad choices. and, it is hugely dangerous to permit government and self-assigned moral police to proscribe choices for them. it was dangerous 60 years ago and it's dangerous now.

3) the sex industry is not a fake economy, it is a real economy. sex is a powerful drive. you can howl at the moon all you want, but plenty of people will always be ready to cash in.

4) what you call a "perverse porn site" will probably be mainstream in a decade or two. get used to it. oral sex was once illegal. as was homosexuality. bestiality used to get you executed, but is now legal in some countries. why? because, as rstuart pointed out, no on gets hurt and some gain pleasure. why is it banned in australia? only because the moral guardians, though weakened, still have a hold. you are probably happy about that: i think it's religiously tinged barbarism.

as you use it, the word "perverse" means nothing except that you don't like it. i might neither. the difference is, i don't act as if god is seated next to me, nodding approval.

"people have a right to make what i regard as bad choices. and, it is hugely dangerous to permit government and self-assigned moral police to proscribe choices for them. it was dangerous 60 years ago and it's dangerous now".

Yes I would agree that adults should be left up to their own devices when it comes to porn. The whole industry is sad and exploitative and makes viewers into incompetent lovers, self-focussed w**nkers, or at best nervously giggling office dweebs out of a cringe comedy, but yes adults have the right to look at it.

But are children capable of such choice?

There are age barriers to voting and joining the army and, indeed consent to sex. Officially people under 18 cannot view pornography or drink alcohol. This is presumably done because younger people have, on average, less ability to judge the consequences of their actions.

Uncensored internet access enables this law to be transgressed not just occasionally but frequently. The heart of this debate is essentially - are we happy with teenage boys and girls looking at typical pornography(with its focus on anal sex, ejaculating on the female face etc., ie male as active and dominating and woman as passive dominated object.) They are at an age when their sexual attitudes are forming. Do we want their sexual attitudes to be primarily shaped by these images? What a wonderful inheritance.

Forget about attitudes being 30-50 years out of date, we'll be back to the neanderthals if mainstream porn becomes the primary model for gender relations.

chandralekha and dickie,

In the unlikely event either of you take up the art of making porn you might consider posting a message to that effect on OLO. You both have lush and vivid imaginations, so there is a real possibility you will be very good at it. I am sure some of the guys here would really appreciate you letting them know.

Indeed, rstuart - it seems that the OLO prude contingent have very active imaginations. Mind you, it doesn't seem to correspond much with either experience or reality.

I stopped taking this discussion seriously when I read this gem from dickie:

<< ...the promotion of cunnilingus on the internet has meant many young men now see this activity as highly desirable >>

Just about every woman friend of mine would consider that to be a positive development!

Seriously, I think Hamilton's uncharacteristically off-beam with this proposal, but the fact that wowsers like Rudd and Conroy have run with it doesn't surprise me in the least.