I have difficulty understanding how some contributors can support their beliefs.
Runner pays tribute to the psalmist. I prefer to look at modern arguments than accept a view several thousand years old. There are plenty of ways to show that an all powerfull and just god is an illogical concept. As for the size of the universe and god being larger - Ahhhhhhh! And he supposed to worry about and know what six billion humans are up to.
As for good and evil. Surely no thoughtful competent person should take advantage of the gullibility of someone less competent. To do so in my view is unfair and therefore evil. That may be idealistic but it is a good way to test one's own behaviour. For that reason I consider the concept of original sin as used by the clergy in dealing with a child is a fundamental evil and the concept could not have come from a just god.
I see one contributor has read the advertisment planned for UK busses. "THERE PROBABLY IS NO GOD SO STOP WORRYING AND ENJOY LIFE." A great idea. One life is enough to get on with.

I’d like to ask if those true god disciples; runner, Polycarp, one under god, etc support my absolutely urgent push for us to get our society onto a sustainable footing.

As I keep harping on, on this forum, we MUST achieve a sustainable society, and quickly. The alternative is simply a huge crash event where the rule of law collapses and food supplies and other vital resources become impossible to obtain for a large part of the populace. Many die and most survivors have their quality of life very greatly reduced. Or a scenario of that sort.

It befuddles me so extremely as to why religions don’t embrace the absolute necessity of a sustainable lifestyle that is in balance with the environment and resource base. The concept of sustainability just seems like the most worthwhile basic religious philosophy of all….especially in a time of such rampantly unsustainable human behaviour.

Why hasn’t Christianity or a branch of Christianity or any other major religion embraced this? Why haven’t people banded together and started a new religion in the absence of anything from the major religions?

It seems to me that all religions are fundamentally missing the most important point of all here…that we as all sorts of societies around the world and as a species need to survive, and in harmony with our surroundings, and with a decent quality of life.

In fact, I need to ask; what the hell are religions doing if they aren’t addressing this point?

dear ludwig >>quote];why havnt people started a new religion [in the ansence of anything from the majors'<<

many would agree[that we allready have too many religions]

jesus was discusted HIS[our]fathers house was divided
[noting this was PRE-christianity] ,
BUT jesus didnt come to found a church

he came to prove we are all reborn[after 'death']
and allow us to know emmanuel[meaning 'god with us'

jesus didnt say judge each other
he said love god[and love neighbour ,
the new test-i-meant]

christ's house is more divided now
even more than the fathers house was divided then

[but this is good , as long as we dont decieve gods children [and who is not a child of god]or generate faulse idols
[or adulterate gods good

[recall jesus saying 'why call ye me good'
[god al;one is the only good

but jesus revealed gods goodness
[see me see my father[just LIKE 'god with us'; emmanuel]

see my brother that we are eternal spirits
[what are mere sufferings of mortal flesh to eternal glory]
[we live because god[good]lives within us all]

that we do to the least we REALLY DO TO GOOD [god]
living enthroned in ALL our hearts
wether we realise it or not

we are to know our master's [good]loving [living] voice

to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil ,[and realise that we love to do
ie love good life given of the lifegiver via gods light

or reject the light[life giver]
and serve that 'vile'
[to live in the vile veil[ed]; evil]
ie to reject the light[or enjoin with the love of evil]

god dont judge

[we are like to all be like him
[we love that we made]so does he

but we are all different[god has so many facets,we each ,all reflect but a tiny bit of the allness god[good]love is

[ok and the bad ,we like god are capable of rejecting the vile or the good
but we will all draw together
[in time] in gods time]
when we are all able to live to love all that of the good

Ludwig: << Why hasn’t Christianity or a branch of Christianity or any other major religion embraced this? >>

A very pertinent question, but I think that it's been substantially answered in John Perkins' article.

While I know several Christians and numerous Buddhists who support campaigns for ecological sustainability, I've yet to see or hear any leaders of churches or other religions involve themselves. Indeed, most of the more vocal Christians at OLO are aggressively anti-environment, which is of course just another reason to dismiss their silly rants.

CJ,

Take a look at the work of Patriarch Bartholomew, the head of the Orthodox Church

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D07E7DB133EF935A35751C1A96F958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2

Rev. John Chryssargis, who is working with him on environmental issues, also said in that article: "The idea is to help the priests understand that part of worshiping God is to respect the natural world."

The Archbishop of Canterbury has said similar things. It is only certain Christian groups who want to be part of the problem rather than part of the solution. The Catholic hierarchy and some if its followers are obsessed with pronatalism. Some of the Protestant fundamentalists believe that God will save us from our own stupidity if we get the really important issues right, like banning abortion or gay marriage. Others believe that Jesus is coming soon, so the environment doesn't matter.

Thanks for that, Divergence - interesting stuff indeed. However, I wonder why we don't hear similar things from church leaders here in Australia? Certainly not from the Jensens, Aspinall, Pell etc.

And quite the reverse from the fundies who seem to infest OLO. I often wonder why it is that some of them are so antagonistic towards the environment that they believe their god created.