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The Forum > Article Comments > Sweet Jesus, not another 'ragger' > Comments

Sweet Jesus, not another 'ragger' : Comments

By Irfan Yusuf, published 20/6/2008

So Camden council's decision against building a Muslim school has nothing to do with racial or sectarian bigotry?

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Imagine if someone wrote a similar article entitled "Sweet Mohammad".There would a baying for blood for showing such disrespect for the great prophet.Irfan is allowed to have his smug little jibes at the Christian faith in this article,but woe be tide anyone who does likewise to Islam.
Posted by Arjay, Sunday, 22 June 2008 12:54:05 PM
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Christianity isn’t an indivisible “one” it’s fair to say that the term describes a mass of semi warring factions. They range from the sublime to the positively bizarre and a small number of zealots of whom we should be fearful of. (By that I mean governmental monitoring of these extremes, within the law). Islam is the same.
Having studied both the Bible and the Koran in depth (along with other religions’ texts) at a university level I can tell you that both contain passages that are, well violent, anti social and down right primitive by modern standards.
Like all literature they reflect the knowledge and attitudes at their time of authorship.
Both books today are generally treated by their devotees with varing degrees of interpretation. That means that both groups have schisms because of those interpretations. Again these interpretations range for the sublime to the “you have to be kidding”. Some believe that the Bible/Koran is literal and even at that level their followers beliefs are merely a little excessively simplistic but pose little real physical threat.
Some Christian fundamentalist groups say the Seventh Day Adventists actually do a lot of good. They deny evolution, the world is 6000 years old etc. coz the bible tells them so so. The Catholics too at the other end of the spectrum have some “oddly reasoned(?)” dogma. Are our lives threatened by them?
It is fact to say some of the biggest monsters in history were Christian and no doubt Islam has had its share. History proves that the common factors of both good and evil logically boil down to individuals.
Think of it this way if you were on a desert island with only either the Koran or Bible would you be any safer one than the other? Would either book (or belief in it) save or threaten you? Regardless of your religion have more mundane problems for survival. Yes Muslims have different views but as people they are the same. It’s all a matter of perspective and reason.
Posted by examinator, Sunday, 22 June 2008 3:04:54 PM
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Christianity is one. There is but one true Church which is the Catholic Church, founded by Jesus Christ, the eternal Son of God.
All of the denominations were not founded by Christ. This is an historical fact. The Catholic Church has apostolic lineage and all its priests and bishops were ordained from bishops who were themselves ordained by a previous generation all the way back to the tweleve Apostles. So it isn't "fair to say" what you just said Examinator.
Further the truth is not found in priovately interpreting the various Scriptures of the different religions. It is the authority behind those Scriptures( or lack thereof) which is what it is really all about. The Bible is a book of the Catholic Church with each book that makes it up being ratified by various Church Councils. Books were included whilst others were excluded based upon whther they were true or not as based upon the living memory of the Catholic congregations from the earliest times.
Islam isn't the same. It has no 'church', it has no 'apostolic lineage'. It bases everythign upon both the Koran and mostly highly dodgy 'hadiths'. In any case, its religion is derived from a mishmash of Jewish, Catholic, gnostic and pagna bits and pieces.

It is all a matter of authority and the Apostles had theirs from Jesus who is God whereas other religions have truth and error mixed.
Posted by Webby, Sunday, 22 June 2008 4:34:04 PM
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Yes of course, racism and bigotry is the catchcall when a Council does what it is supposed to do, make decisions based upon the wishes of the majority within a community.

That is the democratic process, the Councillor's are and were elected to give effect to the will of the people who elected them, who self-evidently do not want a vocal minority in their area, who are unwilling to compromise on the advisability of allowing socially divisive development and who care about the development that is allowed in their community.

Of course, small, vocal minorities are not happy - perhaps if they wish to modify the position of the Council they could stack the local council wards in a similar manner to that in which they have succesfully stacked the State Government electorates.

It is amusing, General Monash, that paragon of Australian Military Virtue and Isaac Isaac's, the ex-Governor General and ex-High Court Judge, were not entitled to membership of the Carlton Club by virtue of their race. Wonder how our current vocal minorities, which have accomplished NOTHING in comparison, would have responded?

Perhaps if such minorities wish to avoid the impending backlash against them they might perhaps take a step back and show some respect for the culture of 'Real' Australians (ie. those outside the Cities). If not, they may be in for a big shock as to the depth of feeling they will encounter, not everybody is exactly thrilled at the situation in Sydney now. I hope they do, I for one have no wish to see Pogroms start in this Country.
Posted by Haganah Bet, Sunday, 22 June 2008 5:11:59 PM
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I am continually fascinated by the mental gymnastics that different kinds of Christian employ to justify their particular stance. Webby,I have just added yours to my extensive collection.

>>There is but one true Church which is the Catholic Church, founded by Jesus Christ, the eternal Son of God... [it] has apostolic lineage and all its priests and bishops were ordained from bishops who were themselves ordained by a previous generation all the way back to the tweleve Apostles.<<

Oddly,I haven't heard this one before.I have heard plenty that start "There is but one true Church which is the xyz Church", followed by some form of verbal sophistry, but this is one of the best so far.

So, with your help, Webby,I'd like to explore it further.

Do you consider the Popes who carried this responsibility to be fully representative of the message they were entrusted with? Or would not there be a few who may be considered to have breached that "apostolic lineage" through their earthly activities?

I would particularly like to hear your observations on Pope Stephen IV, who in 769 came to power with the help of an army which conquered the previous Pope. He then gave orders for this unhappy chap to be flogged, have his eyes cut out, have his kneecaps broken, and be imprisoned until he died. He then sentenced a second man to die a slow, agonizing death, by having pieces of his body cut off every day until he finally died.

Given that Steve-baby wasn't exactly Robinson Crusoe in his interpretation of the need to represent the "one true church" by exercising a somewhat less spiritual approach to the task, where does this leave your unbroken apostolic lineage?

Just interested.
Posted by Pericles, Sunday, 22 June 2008 5:35:06 PM
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Examinator, it's a pity that your years of indepth study of religious texts didn't allow you to see the vast differences between Islam and Christianity. The former is a "complete system" and so, is political as well as religious. Islamic "teachings" form the basis of Islamic law (sharia) while the sira and hadith tell one everything from how to wash "correctly" for prayer to when not to fart.

There is no equivalent amongst Christians, however weird their teachings. I'm no Christian, but even I can see that Christians follow the Golden Rule (Muslims do not) nor do they have a concept of "he who casts the first stone" etc. Frankly statements along the lines of "Islam and Christianity are just soooo similar" are becoming tiresome.
Posted by viking13, Sunday, 22 June 2008 5:44:08 PM
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