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The Forum > Article Comments > Sweet Jesus, not another 'ragger' > Comments

Sweet Jesus, not another 'ragger' : Comments

By Irfan Yusuf, published 20/6/2008

So Camden council's decision against building a Muslim school has nothing to do with racial or sectarian bigotry?

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Following on from Istvan's post, may I say that historically Catholic schools in Australia since WWI have provided three generations of Australians with a strong Catholic Faith life and a social consciousness to join trade unions and be involved in politics for the betterment of Australia and Australians. Since secularisation since the time of Lionel Murphy's Family Law Act of 1974 and since the deregulation and privatisation of government assets since the mid 1980s things have changed for the worse. Many Catholics have actually surrendered to the secularists, many of whom are here as contributors to these forums ! And in fact many Catholics( nominal ones) have actually sided with hostile secularists and anti-Catholics publicly on many issues, thus all becoming THE PROBLEM and yet blaming the old traditional and good Catholic families and traditional Catholic clergy and religious for problems ! Curious but true.
Strong traditional Catholic schools of severl generations ago , and the few good ones left this generation are producing the future good citizens and also saints for Heaven.
Posted by Joanne, Tuesday, 24 June 2008 9:06:29 PM
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Irfan what about,

But you're still angry. You scream out blasphemously: "Moh&^%$# the pig
f^&$#r"
Posted by Philip Tang, Wednesday, 25 June 2008 10:25:56 AM
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All,

From the Catholic Encylopaedia:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12495a.htm

The Bible as an infallible source would seem problematic given historians can usually take it apart e.g., Herod was dead when Jesus or the Bible's time is wrong and Jesus was born 7 BCE. The Holy Catholic Church did not really start with Peter. There were 10-15 Jewish bisops, beforehand.

It was really until the time Hadrian that the Romans came to centre stage. Moreover, the Councils of Nicaea and Constantinople legitimised and institutionalised Catholic fist dogma.

Jesus was more likely trying to establish an extended Jewish House of David, via a ministry to the Gentiles.

The Herodians, appointed by Julius Caesar, were Arabs and were out of favour from the time of Augustus and c.30 CE would have been good to have a run for power. The Annas actually won, but soon after we have the Jewish-Roman wars of the 60s & 130s.

In the Fourth Century, Constantinian Rome assimilated Jewish-Christianity, probably the very opposite to Jesus' plan, but to a similar end.

Regards.
Posted by Oliver, Thursday, 26 June 2008 6:24:21 PM
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Oliver & all our viewers

Oliver what you ahve jsut asserted is NOT found in the encylopedia you've alleged to have summarised.
I think you are engaged in myddying the waters Oliver.

Peter the Apostle IS Jewish and he along with the other 11 Apostles were Jewish and were all the original bishops.
The Bible as infallible source is only known to be so because it has an infallible interpreter, the Church. It was the Catholic Church that decided which of the various books were to be included in the canon ( which means list) of the New Testament. The Catholic Church decided on 27 such books for the NT. It also decided on the number found in the OT as well.

The dating of Jesus doesn;t go to crediblility but merely shows that calendars and how a year is calculated changed several times based upon science and the interpretation of authorities at the time.

The Church did in fact begin with Peter.

Nicea and Constantinople and also Ephesus before Constantinople, along with all Catholic Church Councils including the most recent Vatican II from 1962 to 1965 decide on all dogmatic issues.
Dogmas defined at any Council merely define in human lagnauge the existing truths that wre already believed by Catholics prior to the definitions. Nothing new in that.

Constantine merely allowed the Church legal status which is a terrific thing. Before the Edict of Milan in 313AD human rights were beign denied to the early Christians and the Church ( all Catholics).
Not a few modern day pagans, and not a few 'evangelicals'( a misnomer) would love to return to pre Cosntantine times as persecutor of the true Christians and the true Chruch whcih are Catholic.
Posted by Retired Keith, Friday, 27 June 2008 9:48:57 AM
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The danger with Mr Boaz's views is that they are not based on fact but upon anti-Catholic prejudice. No light emanated from an alleged 'dark' Catholic past. In fact, Protestantism that came about in the UK to satisfy King Henry VIII's carnal and wordly demands for a male heir( he didn't actually believe in the frogpop, oops I mean the Lutheranism extant from the Continent Mr Boaz)and also the European Continent brought about the loss of rights for ordianry people with the worship of work brought about by the Dutch East Indies traders and the like.

Today we have an 'open all hours' mentality in which even Protestants are aghast at how their own work worship was taken up by their Protestant Anglo--American economics which is based on anti biblical neo liberal economics. Anathema sit !

Jesus is indeed the Way and He himself gave His authority for His message to be transmitted by His Apsotles within His Church. That is the way. To be aligned with Jesus's will, is to OBEY His will when He actually, in real time, did not hand out non existent New testaments but ORALLY passed on His Gospel to men ( the Apostles) and the Church established with them.

The early Christian worship is found in the Book of Revelations and in some of St Paul's letters. The liturgy of the East and West in the trditional Mass forms is described in the Book of Revelations.
The prejudiced Protestant mind, ignorant of real time history has extrapolated silly conspiracies about pagan Romea and whores as being the Church instead. Talk about madness !
"caliph = Pope" you say. You need to read real histories and not Protestant comic books. Professor Scott Hahn, former Presbyterian Professor ( leading Professor of biblical studies in the USA) became a Catholic. He lectures now at the Fransican University of Steubenville in the USA. Do a google search on him.
Posted by Retired Keith, Friday, 27 June 2008 10:18:25 AM
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Retired Keith and Friends,

The citation of the Catholic Encyclaedia was limited to Protestantism. At OLO, I saw some conflicting commens, on what that Church thought, so went to the source.

The other comments are outside the above.

My cites are many historical; Gibbon, Toynbee, Wells, Quigley & Mc Neill, whom studied civilizations.

The bit about Herod is well documented. Thiering and others having reason to place Jesus' birth earlier is, not only because
historical events around the Jesus', but because a date of 7 BCE fits politically and with scientifically verifiable astronomic events.

The earlier date also fits in with Jewish continuous calandar, which would have Eschation in the Jewish Year 4,000 (60 CE), according to some Jewish millennial sects.

I aware of their being Councils earlier than Nicaea. Here was a half-Council in 190 CE. Also, latter, Constantinople & Kent.

Hadrian exciled the Jews from the Holy Lands and the group from Pella; these guys needed a Gentile bishop to return and worship(Mack).

Regarding religionists, I would posit the Catholics would have the greater claim on apostolic progression, with priviso, it is necessary to recognize the transmutation away from the Jewish Faith generations after Jesus, towards the Hellenised Christian religion.

Jesus fomred a Jewish religion that was intended to be open the Gentiles. The vechicle would have been the House of David. Instead, Rome assumed the Faith.

Busy. Will check back Tuesday.

Cheers.
Posted by Oliver, Friday, 27 June 2008 10:58:23 AM
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