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Sweet Jesus, not another 'ragger' : Comments
By Irfan Yusuf, published 20/6/2008So Camden council's decision against building a Muslim school has nothing to do with racial or sectarian bigotry?
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Posted by Savage Pencil, Sunday, 29 June 2008 3:25:57 PM
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Crikey, here's some "positive" news from Indonesia!! NOT ...
The Indonesian government has halted all religious activities of the Ahmadiyya Muslim community, handing a victory to Islamic extremists and tarnishing Indonesia's reputation as a moderate, pluralistic Muslim nation. The decree, approved June 10 by President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, falls short of an outright ban on Ahmadis, but orders them to stop practicing their faith and "return to mainstream Islam." Ahmadis now face arrest for practicing their beliefs. About 5,000 members of the hard-line group United for Islam demonstrated outside the presidential palace the day the ban was signed. On June 1, extremists attacked an interfaith rally supporting Ahmadiyya, injuring dozens of people. Extremists have been demonstrating by the thousands in Jakarta over the last few months, and on April 28 some torched an Ahmadiyya mosque in Sukabumi, Western Java. Since the influential and state-supported Council of the Indonesian Ulama issued a 2005 fatwa that banned the Ahmadiyya, violence, threats and vandalism against the group's estimated 200,000 followers in the country have increased. The Ahmadiyya endure official and societal discrimination simply for believing that leader Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, who founded the movement in 1889, was a prophet. President Yudhoyono has been caught between moderates and extremists in this battle for Indonesia's democratic character. By caving in to extremists, he has abdicated the state's responsibility to respect its citizens' freedom of conscience, while effectively condoning religious violence. Other religious minorities, including Christians and Hindus, are now at greater risk for discrimination and persecution. CONTINUED BELOW Posted by Savage Pencil, Monday, 30 June 2008 11:23:37 PM
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On June 14 the Indonesian government disregarded a formal agreement with Protestant leaders by demolishing three churches. The agreement called for the churches to suspend their Sunday religious functions in exchange for not being torn down.
Minority religious communities are finding it more and more difficult to exercise their rights. On something as simple as church construction and repair, changes in 2006 to a ministerial decree of 1969 regulating the building of places of worship has not improved conditions: it is still very difficult to get a permit to build churches, so much so that many religious groups have had to practice their faith illegally. This in turn has provided Islamic extremists with excuses to carry out violent attacks against home churches. SOURCE - The Cutting Edge News http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=605 Posted by Savage Pencil, Monday, 30 June 2008 11:25:45 PM
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Dear Retired Keith,
[1] "They [The Jews] were forbidden even to set foot in Aelia Capitolina, except on one fixed day in each year. 'They might look on the city but with their eyes afar off,' writes Tertullian exultingly. This ban was not extended to the Palestinian Christians, and the Church at Jerusalem, now composed of the new Gentile settlers, presently received her first "Gentile" Bishop in the person of one Marcus. The very land changed its name. "Syria Palaestina" was now placed under the government of a consular legate, and garrisoned by two legions. Cite: Adv. Jud.13. Eusebius, H.E. IV, 6, 3, on this quotes the Christian, Ariston of Pella. & Eutropius VII, 13, 5 in Bernard W. Henderson; Methuen, 1923. [2] "In order to prevent the recurrence of insurrections by the Jews, who in their religious schools were cherishing hopes of reviving a Jewish kingdom under the Messias, the emperor ordered the Roman troops in Jerusalem to raze the ruins left standing in that ancient city and to set up a military colony, Ælia Capitolina. It was his wish to eradicate Judaism as such. The Jews revolted in 132 under Simon, whom they called Bar-Cocheba. (Son of the Stars)." Cite: Bib. Publius Ælius Hadrian in Catholic Enclopaedia The serious omission in [2], the Bibliography is that Macus was the first Gentile bishop. Infallibility is problematic, when the Church conflicts with history. Herein, if even the Theist should see the need of a make-over and update. Regards. Posted by Oliver, Wednesday, 2 July 2008 1:33:27 AM
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Retired Keith,
With a little more searching actually did find some tilt towards history: "The line of bishops of Jerusalem was then continued as follows: Judas (Justus), 107-113; Zachaeus or Zacharias; Tobias; Benjamin; John; Matthias (d. 120); Philip (died c. 124); Seneca; Justus; Levi; Ephraim; Joseph; Judas Quiriacus (d. between 134-148). "All these were Jews (Eus., "Hist., Eccl.", IV, v). It was during the episcopate of Judas Quiriacus that the second great calamity, the revolt of Bar-Kochba and final destruction of the city, took place. Goaded by the tyranny of the Romans, by the re-erection of Jerusalem as a Roman colony and the establishment of an altar to Jupiter on the site of the Temple, the Jews broke out into a hopeless rebellion under the famous false Messias Bar-Kochba about the year 132. During his rebellion he persecuted the Jewish Christians, who naturally refused to acknowledge him (Eus., "Chron.", for the seventeenth year of Hadrian). The Emperor Hadrian put down this rebellion, after a siege that lasted a year, in 135. As a result of this last war the whole neighbourhood of the city became a desert. On the ruins of Jerusalem a new Roman city was built, called Ælia Capitolina (Ælia was Hadrian's family nomen), and a temple to Jupiter Capitolinus was built on Mount Moria. No Jew (therefore no Jewish Christian) was allowed under pain of death inside the town. This brought about a complete change in the circumstances of the Church of Jerusalem. The old Jewish Christian community came to an end. In its place a Church of Gentile Christians, with Gentile bishops, was formed..." The above goes way beyond Jesus and the Apostles being [Christian] Jews. Cite: Jerusalem in the Catholic Encylopaedia. Posted by Oliver, Wednesday, 2 July 2008 1:44:30 AM
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Dear Oliver,
You need to do more searching. Infallibility relates not to impecability of historical records nor even of the personal failures of even Popes and their bishops. Last time I checked all human beings have weaknesses and sins during a lifetime. Come to think of it Jesus came to save all human beings from their sins. There may have been very good reasons to prevent Jews from setting foot in Aelia Capitolina. Remember that int he first couple fo centrues after the Resurrection of Chris, Christians were persecuted and even killed by the Jews. The at Saint Stephen the first Christiand martyr who was stoned to death by Jews and of Saul( later St paul's) role in all of this before he converted. In the first few centuries AD the Jews who refused o become Christians used to vilify Catholics and the Church. Talmudic commentaries from that time attest to this fact. And what ommission in (2)? Infallibility is not problematic as with some basic research Oliver you will find that it has only been invoked on a few occasions. It wasn't even officially promulgated until 1870 at Vatican Council One! Posted by Retired Keith, Wednesday, 2 July 2008 1:48:29 PM
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If "Australians", or should I say non-Islamic Australians, really want to keep an Islamic faith school out of their backyards then they should look to the Islamic world itself for inspiration as to what to do about communities that don't share your faith.
Deutsche Presse-Agentur reported on June 28th that three people have died and nearly 300 people have been injured in the Muslim-majority Indian state of Kashmir in unrest that began on Monday, June 23rd to oppose the transfer of 40 hectares of forest land to the Shri Amarnath Shrine Board. The board organizes the pilgrimage to Amarnath cave, considered one of the holiest shrines in the Hindu faith.
According to DPA, several areas in Srinagar - the Kashmiri capital - witnessed pitched battles between the police and stone-pelting groups. Police said they had to baton-charge and fire tear-gas shells to disperse the mobs and an estimated 20 people were injured in these protests. The NDTV network reported that four demonstrators sustained gun-shot wounds after mobs attacked police stations in the city forcing police to open fire.
Protests also intensified in areas in the Budgam, Pulwama, Anantnag, Baramulla and Bandipore districts against the state government's controversial move. Muslim activists who were involved in the protests were reported to be shouting slogans like "Stop the sale of Kashmir" and the green Islamic flag was hoisted atop a clock-tower in the heart of Srinagar.
Meanwhile in other news from the Islamic world it has been reported that three Protestant home churches in West Java have been torn down by Indonesian authorities in mid-June. See http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=12622&size
Crikey, on this basis I am not sure why Irfan isn't complaining about the "wussiness" of the people who opposed the Islamic school at Camden. Two pigs' heads on a property just doesn't match outright demolition of buldings or storming police stations does it?