Thanks Keysar, but that wasn't quite what I was asking. I don't think you'll find a mainstream Christian denomination that will agree with you on your interpretation of Christ's attitude to the law. We obviously observe the 10 commandments, although even here some things have been shaved a little - sabbath observance for example. But the whole set of laws set down in Deuteronomy are not part of Christian practice, and the issue of whether they should be was dealt with right at the very beginning of Christianity in an argument between Peter and Paul.

But the issue I was interested in was that of continuing revelation. What is Islam's position on that. Do you see Allah revealing more to man after Mohammed, or is that the point at which revelation ends?

My second comment for this 24 hour cycle.

BB and Pericles, well done. BB, please do not allow our human frailties to reflect on God or His book. The crux of divine messages is to teach us the best means of getting along without stepping on each other’s toes.

Boaz, like I say, you know too little about Islam, read Sura 60 verses 8 & 9. These define the relationship between Muslims and non Muslims. Darul Islam is majority Muslim countries, Darul Harb are nations that wage wars against Muslims where Muslims are not allowed to live and not permitted to practice their faith freely. For example, if I was to migrate to a nation that would qualify as Darul Harb, I would be killed there.

There is also Darul 'Ahd, meaning, the nations with a treaty with the Muslims, sometimes also loosely included as Darul Sulh, meaning nations that are at peace with Muslims.

JGreenfield, look up the GIRU, its head is educated at Griffith only, he does not hold any qualifications from a Muslim seminary. I am not defending him, just a correction.

Boaz, apart from the Vatican, large sections of Christendom support the Israeli state because this in their view will hasten the second coming of the Messiah who will supposedly rule the world. So please stop this Taqiya and Kitman.

Graham, on Continuing revelation, the final is the Qur`an, after the Qur`an, people may be inspired to explain but not to bring a new message from God. However, humanity has witnessed more than 124000 prophets and messengers from God, some with revelations and some without whose role was to continue to teach earlier revealed messages. A new message usually comes when the old one is lost by humanity or is distorted to such an extent that a fresh revelation is needed. In our view, whilst confirming the mission of Christ, the Qur`an summed up the moral messages of all previous revelations and addressed humanity in an eternal tone that continues to inspire and educate to this very day and will continue well beyond.

Love

Keysar

I am being serious when I ask you this. Why is it that every time I read an Islamist post here they always make claims about others that simply are not true? Is it part of a strategy to continually "poison the well" or is it just comprehension skills? Nowhere did I say or even suggest that Muhammad Abdullah was not educated at Griifith University. Oh, and GU that renowned centre of medieval history and Islamic scholarship! NOT!

Are you denying that Abullah is an imam?

Dear_Kaysar.....

you_said:

"the Qur`an summed up the MORAL messages of all previous revelations and addressed humanity in an eternal tone that continues to inspire and educate to this very day and will continue well beyond."

'Surah 23:5-6'

The believers are those who.....

023.005
YUSUFALI: Who abstain from sex,

023.006
YUSUFALI: Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame.

So, Kaysar.. r u telling us that this is the 'moral tone' that educates and inspires us? "sexual abuse of captive women"

Do you honestly feel comfortable about Mohammad, the so called 'beloved prophet' allowing his soldiers to go 'all the way' in unrestrained intercourse (rape) of captive women who the soldiers have just widowed?

(PS. Deuteronomy 21:10-13 speaks only about marriage, after a month of mourning. NOT ad hoc sexual abuse.)

Volume 3, Book 34, Number 432:

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

that while he was sitting with Allah's Apostle he said, "O Allah's Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interrupt us?" The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it. No soul that which Allah has destined to exist, but will surely come into existence.

(i.e. if you unleash your sperm into them, Allah decides if a child is conceived)

just a bit further Mohamamad says this:

Volume 3, Book 34, Number 435:

Narrated Zaid bin Khalid and Abu Huraira:

that Allah's Apostle was asked about an unmarried slave-girl who committed illegal sexual intercourse. They heard him saying, "Flog her, and if she commits illegal sexual intercourse after that, flog her again, and on the third (or the fourth) offense, sell her."

Sooooo...... Muslim soldiers raping newly widowed mothers, is not 'illegal' but a slave girl having sex with someone she actually cares about (as opposed to master who abuses her regularly) is a floggable offense?

Love, is_hat shows you the true road you are on Kaysar.

"the Qur`an summed up the MORAL messages of all previous revelations and addressed humanity in an eternal tone that continues to inspire and educate to this very day and will continue well beyond."

Really?

Kaysar.. mate, you are in need of serious help.

65:4 permits the:

-Marraige
-Sexual consumation
-Divorce

of PRE-Pubescent female children!

My opinion?

nope.. that is the opinion of Maulana Maududi and Ibn Kathir

Look up Tafheem Al Quran (Maududi) on 64:4

http://www.tafheem.net/main.html

click on At Talaaq then scroll to Paragraph *13 about verse 4 where you find THIS!

"Therefore, making mention of the waiting-period for the girls who have not yet menstruated, clearly proves that it is not only permissible to give away the girl in marriage at this age but it is also pemssible for the husband to consummate marriage with her. Now, obviously no Muslim has the right to forbid a thing which the Qur'an has held as permissible."

(This understanding is supported in Bukhari's hadith also.)

Now Kaysar.. you can spin this as much as you like mate.. (even call on Pericles to tell us I am not qualified to 'interpret' these things, but Pericles has yet to argue that Maududi or Ibn Kathir are not qualified)

-talk about everything under the sun...but can you deny that this high ranking Islamic scholar knows what he is talking about?
You have only two options "condemn Maududi" or.. 'agree' that what he says is correct.

If you don't condemn him, then you are faced with the truth that the Quran permits sexual relations with pre-pubescent children by old men!

It is futile to argue that 'Oh..but Mohammad is our example and he only had sex with Aisha when she was 9 (as if that's not bad enough)'

because as you well know..the Quran is above Mohammad in authority.

So.. when I read your closing little "love" messages.. I'm afraid my feeling is that you are just trying to sugar coat a very unpalatable message.

The only thing of importance here is..'TRUTH'.....

and whether u are prepared to face it, and speak it.

Boaz, as usual your selectiveness distorts the truth. Islam does not permit any sexual activity with a pre-pubescent. Here is what the Bible says about slavery:
Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.
Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour. LEVITICUS 25:44-46

Sorry, I forgot, you only believe in that part of the Bible that suits you.

The Muslim leader Mohammad II abolished all forms of slavery, he did so because he reached a situation where he could negotiate with his opponents a better treatment for war prisoners. He was inspired by Islam’s aim to gradually eliminate slavery as Islam led the way throughout history in seeking to end that disgusting practice. Rape is rape Boaz, regardless of your relationship with the victim. Your spin is not going to convince anyone.

Anzac Harmony, I was not talking to you, I was talking to John Greenfield, unless you are one and the same, then you are mistaken. If you did not already know, Mohamad Abdalla is a lay preacher and not a qualified Imam. To my knowledge, he was one of several lay volunteers who used to speak at the Kurraby mosque in QLD. As far as I am aware, these have now been replaced by a qualified Aussie-born Imam. As I said, I am not defending him, he can look after himself.

Muhammad, the messenger of God, peace and blessings upon him, said: “None of you is a true believer until you love one another, to love another, you must spread peace.”

Love and peace.