CJ Morgan, I’m afraid we’re going to have to agree to differ about just how bad a man I am.

socratease, It’s hard to tell if you’re 7 years old with a bright upturned countenance and enormous eyes, or if you’re actually on the money. :) Anyhow, I certainly HOPE you’re right, and I realise that hope might have to suffice. I also agree that acting positively on that view – as though it were true, even if one has misgivings – is the only way to proceed. I’ve said this before, but I think we here on OLO should spend more energy discussing what to do, rather than on trying to agree (or prevail) about diagnostics.

stevenlmeyer, Thanks. Condell is as ruthless as a dog approaching its dinner bowl, but he’s certainly a funny dog.

Pax,

Myyyyyy Goodnesss...this is tooo Precious :)

Ginx: WHAT would OLO be without you ? :) classsic.

<<You really are a repulsive little slug aren't you, John Sleazefield?>>

You did more in that little sentence for 'Right Wing' causes than the Right Faction of the Liberal party over a decade mate :)

SUSAN P/GY.. even though GINX has committed the grievous sin of 'FLAMING'
please don't ban her.. she is good value, and adds color (if not information) to the otherwise sometimes rather clinical discussions and is a great testimony for what some of us are saying.

CJ
"And Christian haters are no better than Muslim haters."

ROFL! ...CJ.. "confession" is down at the local RC church mate:) But dare I make the observation that you tend.. just a tinnnny bit, to fall into the category of 'Christian haters'? if ur posts are a guide.

Methinks Goodthief touched a nerve there *ouch*

C'mere.. u need a HUG :)

CJ.. I treat "muslims" as they come. I have the runs on the board regarding 'face2face' with FH, and I still miss the bloke.. his happy smile and chirpy jovial manner... We disagree on Islam, but that doesn't mean I don't cherish him as a person- geeeeee...

I'd find it a bit more of a challenge if f2f with an unrepentant Maroubra revenge attacker, but..we can do all things in HIM who enables us, after all.. as He said "they know not what they do".

SOCRATEASE... ur a_teaser arn't_u :)

You said:

"We want an Australia that can be richly multicultural and the Muslims have a richness that can enrich and empower us."

I disagree on both counts.

1/ No, we (me and my mob) DON'T want a 'multi' cultural Australia.

We want an Australia which is focused on ONE thing..'being Australians' without reference to ethnic or cultural tags.
The main problem with your rather idealistic (and romantic) view is 'time'......Over time, 'difference' tends to become reinforced, and tribal. It is a natural 'US/THEM'.. which of course is not a problem until you bring politics into it.
-OOohh.. those MUSLIMS.. all living on welfare, having lots of kids.. blah blah
-Oooooh..those white racists.. they hate us, they deny us jobs because we are Muslims....
-Oooohh..those XYZ mob.. look at the GRANT 'they' got for their new community centre... what about US?

Now..left alone, those things subside in time, BUT.. when someone with a political agenda comes in.. they STIR STIR STIR on those things and try to divide and conquer. If you want to destablize India, just bomb a Mosque and call in as if ur a Hindu Nationalist "we did it"
and Vice versa with a Hindu Temple. If you doubt.. check out how Indian Hindu's feel in Malaysia over the Government bulldozing ONE small temple. Then see the outcome of their last election :)

Now..I'm going to annoy you here -ONE Nation, ONE Race, ONE culture...full stop!

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=164

U'd need to read my opening post in that link to understand what I'm getting at :)

2/ Muslims have a richness that can empower us.

Sorry.. as PEOPLE yes, but as 'Muslims'..no. We are enriched from their cultural differences.. agreed. We are not enriched by the aspects of Islam which I often rant about.
The only 'power' "Islam" is interested in...is that we should be subjugated! (Surah 9:29 please read it)

http://www.al-kitab.org/al-kitab/quran/SURAH009.htm

"Muslims" who happen to be of the 'cultural' kind rather than the 'Islamist' kind, can teach us a lot about extended family and respect for elders. (and we sorely need that lesson)

CJ,

Your gutless rant can only be aimed at myself and BD. So I spread hatred is that right? I could equally accuse you of spreading ignorance, apathy and stupidity. I would like you to show me how and where I spread hatred. Since you can’t even point out Goodthiefs supposed flaws I think it highly unlikely you can.

Goodthief,

I think your posts are regularly well composed and your moderate opinions are thoughtfully enunciated. Your willingness to try and find a middle ground with those fantasists from the left is to be commended.

Socratease,

Much of what you say makes sense, except that the problem with radical Islamists isn’t getting better, its getting worse. Previous generations of Muslim Australians were decidedly more moderate than today’s young Muslims. I seem to regularly have to state that I fully accept that most Muslims are not radicalized. I don’t not have a problem with these people, I am happy for more of them to migrate here.

But, the proportion of Muslims who ARE following fundamentalist strains of Islam, the Islamists, is growing. They are taking over mosques, community centre’s and university student organizations. They are focused upon bringing moderate Muslims into their fold.

Many leftists seem to think that AlQaeda and other Islamist organisations main enemy is the West. It is not, it is the moderate Islamic nations. The west is merely in the way of their main goals, which are the unification of the Muslim world under their fundamentalist banner.

We need to have people going to the mosques, listening to what the Imams are saying, rooting out those who are fomenting intolerance, supporting terror or vilifying non muslims. We need to understand the differences between Muslim sects rather than merely swallowing the “Islam is a religion of peace” nonsense hook, line and sinker. For some Muslims it is clearly NOT.

I see the problem in our policy of Multiculturalism. I believe and support the notion of Australians of diverse backgrounds and heritages. However I believe that all migrants should be encouraged to integrate or assimilate into the mainstream.

Muslim extremists are already winning the day if we are to judge from the rantings of some mails we've been getting on this website. They are eroding our ability to reason calmly;they are making us use invective and insult;they are making us demean ourselves and behave like rednecks. They will also attack anyone who reminds them of what they are doing to themselves.Goodthief,I am not a seven year oldalthough I'm beginning to think I am dealing with one.There!You see what I mean...it is so easy to fall into the trap and resort to counter-attack with unseemly language.This was just to illustrate how things are going. I have enormous eyes filled with hope.HOPE! That is our greatest weapon.You say we should not spend time on diagnostics but focus on what to do. That is right,what we should be doing is working and living with hope and behave welcomingly. Ihave made a Muslim friend who is a PhD in Geology and has an MA in Literature. He attends Unitarian forums and meets with people like Val Webb and enfages in dialogue.The differences will always be there and so it should be. We dont want him to become a christian and he doesnt want us to convert to Islam. We only want to explore our human-ness and engage in friendly dialogue. I have met his daughter and son-in-law and they are like him...lovely people who only want to live in peace and be the best for their families.Their friends share their values. Do you fel the need to meet such people too. Many subscribers to this chat room would NOT in case they see the error of their ways and the worst thing that can befall thenm is that thewre wont be anyone left to HATE and VILLIFEY. How lonely that would make them.

Socratease

Boazy - perhaps I should have said 'Christians who spread hatred are every bit as bad as Muslims who spread hatred'. Neither description applies to me.

Paul.L: << Your gutless rant can only be aimed at myself and BD >>

I wasn't actually referring to you, but if you want to include yourself among "the most rabid of Islamophobes in this forum", then that's fine by me. If the cap fits... And exactly how is it "gutless" to stand up to the numerous anonymous racists and hatemongers who infest this forum?

If you had any "guts" you'd identify yourself with the hateful drivel that you post repetitively in this forum, instead of hiding behind an alias.