Socratease,

I think it was Paul.L who said this, “We need to support moderate Muslims but at the same time we should be effectively targeting radicals and fundamentalists, especially ensuring that those Muslims who do migrate aren’t adding to the problem”

As to the Israel/Palestinian conflict it is sad to turn it into a religious one by the fundamentalist Zionist and Muslims.

For present day Israel, I believe she is primarily secular and that they practice what their scriptures exhort them to do

“You shall have the same law for the stranger and for one from your own country; for I am the Lord your God.” Lev. 24:22

It is not only Islamists like Mustafa Qadri and Keysar Trad who wish religious dogma to trump scholarship in Australia's universities. A chain petition is currently doing the rounds as a complaint to the Australian Press Council trying to silence our media!

http://culturewarriorwatch.blogspot.com/2008/05/islamists-complain-to-press-council.html

Thanks Philip, I’ll look at some of those.

You say, “I think we have to face the fact that Muslims are compelled by Islam to be constantly on a jihad against non-Muslims.” That’s the worst possible view of Islam, but I realise it might be correct. Still, even if true, it doesn’t help me much to work out what to do. What it does do is remind me not to be naïve in working out a course of action and in taking that course.

This is what concerns me. The secular website you refer to says, “the reply to Islam to be effective would have to be more blood-thirsty and paranoid than Islam itself”. I sure hope that’s incorrect. Even if Islam is as bad as the worst description suggests, it doesn’t follow that a savage response is the only wise course of action. Might we not attempt a softer approach? I don’t mean appeasement – of the kind that bans the cross in a workplace full of scarves – but real mature respect, which would be required to be mutual.

And, may we not distinguish between Islam and Muslims, and entertain a hope that they might become “bad Muslims”?

Trying to work out what to do.

Pax,

To all readers of the Islam discussion group:

A Unitarian minister on Sunday addressed his audience and said "Let us all be Christian but not Christians."
In the same way I fervently hope that a Muslim will try to be Muslim but leave off trying too hard to be a Muslim.

Socratease

Philip
I read your post with great interest and your irritation and frustration is clearly justified but will be allayed when you realise something of the contemporary history of Islam especially in the countries you jhave named ...andthere are others also.

The situation is this. In the Asian countries you singled out correctly and also European and American countries there are colonies of Muslim migrants who have virtually fled the bigotry and ignorance,the backwardness and regressive nature of their own homelands. The steps must have been very hard to make but for teir future and the future of their children they had to make those decisions.I should know.I too had to leave the comfort,the security and friends and cultural familiarity of my homeland to come away to Australia.It is very hard to make the move,believe me.

BUT with these genuine future-seeking Muslims who are happy in their new secular democratic countries of liberal dispensation there are also the subversives whose agenda is not the agenda of the genuinely pace-loving and educated Muslims although in the time of crisis the two get confused as being the same. There is a serious wave of Muslims dedicated to the establishment of the Third Caliphate in the world.They aim at world domination. The Muslim Brtotherhood,AlQaida and JI are just to name three. They would just as cheerfully kill the heretic and apostate Musllim as the kufir.Theyve got Saudi Arabia and the UAE well in the crosshairs ....as well as Morocco and Algeria!
They are counting on us taking it out on the "good guys" and throwing suspicion on them to create in us a hatred and suspicion of ALL Muslims.Let us not be stupid enough to fall into their trap!

Socratese

goodthief

Of course one should distinguish between Muslims as a people and Islam as a totalitarian ideology. However, Muslims subscribes to this totalitarian ideology and are not at liberty to leave it if they choose to. They would be killed as commanded in the Koran and Hadiths.

Dr. Patrick Sookhdeo (ex-Muslim of South Asian origin) gave a good and informative lecture on Islam from a Christian perspective. He knows Islam well and is generally sympathetic towards the Muslims.

http://www.nashotah.edu/audio/convocation2004/sookdheo/sookhdeo01.mp3 (lecture)
http://www.barnabasfund.org/news/archives/article.php?ID_news_items=402 (interview)