free2speak says:

"Voicing criticism, even condemnation, against Islam or any religion should not be considered racism or vilification in a society that upholds free speech."

Yes, but two things. The criticism of Islam is driven not by rational thought but obscurantist rantings or racist underpinnings.

Second, what if that free speech impinges on the right of others to go about their business and lives without harassment or oppression?

And further, what if the free speech leads to physical attacks? The Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Oi Oi Oi intelligentsia who attacked people who looked 'different' at Cronulla took racist free speech to its logical conclusion.

The nice free speech people who yelled at ABC cameras telling Muslims to f..K off or they would be driven from Camden (or words to that effect) weren't asking to have afternoon tea with those proposing to set up a school in Camden.

I just see racism in all these criticisms of Muslims. Maybe I have the wrong glasses on, but I don't think so. These attacks on Islam are driven by fear of the other, a completely irrational fear but one that sublimates alienated lives under capitalism to a sense of control over a minority group, and hence some sort of power in an essentially power denied life.

Yes Philip Tang.Islam is the religion of the impotent.Hate and violence is substituted for logic and for the development of civilised society.

Respectability and truth does not enminate from the collective belief of 1.4 billion people.The Western and Oriental world see truth in objective science and logic.Religion is just the ointment that sooths our insecurities.

Survival equals logic and religion equals emotional security based on an imaginery father figure.This father figure is used by all religions to surpress logic.What chance has our humanity of surviving another 100 yrs?Our tribal mentality is but a hare's breath from self destruction.

CJ Morgan, you say –

<What amuses me most about this predictable Islamophobic feeding frenzy is that most participants have missed one of Qadri's more interesting points, which is that vilification of Islam and Muslims has become for some Westerners the acceptable expression of the same kind of misanthropic hatred that used to manifest as racism.>

Perhaps it would be interesting if it were true. I see how the two phenomena COULD be similar, but I think they’re not. The main reason is that Islam is, among other things, a bunch of ideas that are located in some documents. The strong, urgent disapproval of these ideas is not “personal” in the way that racism always is. I agree that those of us who object to much of Islam’s ideas have to make sure we don’t extrapolate to Muslim people – and the risk of extrapolation is high – but the two phenomena are different.

Mustafa, Where are you? Kindly engage with these arguments.

SusanP, Thanks for explaining about flaming.

Pax,

Let us be aware of the emergence of the new and revitalised Islam that is trying to establish itself as an alternative Islam to the hateful and bigoted desert version that is over two thousand years old and is rapidly becoming redundant.

You'll find it in its nascent state in America, Europe Australia and New Zealand mainly where millions of them have fled their homelands to give their children a better life.these are educated Muslims who have studied science and felt the life-giving winds of liberalism. They are hated by the fundamentalist ultraconservatives more tahn we are hated. Thes people are a more potent thrfeat to the old doctrines that would not otherwise thrive .

These "new" Muslims need our sympathies,our friendship and ecouuragement and support. The problem is that with them have come theose who are Wahabists and those dedicated to the establishment of the Third Caliphate .They offer no compromise or co-existence.They seek our extermination. How we cope withy this threat depends on how strong we are willing to be,how willing we are to fight fire with fire and do whatever it means to protect ourselves and our way of life. If do-gooders say this makes us no better than them so be it. I am talking about survival.Let's not get too particular and squeamish about it. Remember the Wooden Horse of Troy?
The enemy isnt merely at our gates;he is already amongst us here and now.
Socratease

Words of wisdom from the politically very correct mayor of London, Boris Johnson.

"To any non-Muslim reader of the Koran, Islamophobia – fear of Islam – seems a natural reaction, and, indeed, exactly what that text is intended to provoke. Judged purely on its scripture – to say nothing of what is preached in the mosques – it is the most viciously sectarian of all religions in its heartlessness towards unbelievers. As the killer of Theo Van Gogh told his victim's mother this week in a Dutch courtroom, he could not care for her, could not sympathise, because she was not a Muslim.

We do indeed need to inculcate this Britishness, especially into young Muslims.... We should teach British history. We should think again about the jilbab, with the signals of apartness that it sends out, and we should probably scrap faith schools. We should forbid the imams from preaching sermons in anything but English; because if you want to build a society where everyone feels included, and where everyone shares in the national story, we cannot continue with the multicultural apartheid."

http://www.islam-watch.org/Others/thoughts-on-Islam-London-mayor-Boris-Johnson.htm

Passy...

I'm quite prepared to work long_and_hard_with_you.. to extricate you from this sad 'blinker' vision you currently have.

"The criticism of Islam is driven not by rational thought but obscurantist rantings or racist underpinnings."

Here is the_truth:

SOME...critics_of_Islam... speak from the viewpoint you mentioned.

OTHERS speak out of knowledge of that faith and its history.

I fall into the latter category. Do you see me here ranting against Hinduism? Buddhism? Zoroastrianism? Bahai-ism?

Those faiths don't constitute any particular threat to Australia at this point. I can discuss their merits or lack thereof theologically, and I could even mention re radical Hinduism that a wonderful man from my own tradition, along with his children, were burned to death in their car by an angry Hindu mob, but that was not 'Hinduism' doing that, it was ignorant, rabid 'people' who could not point to a 'doctrine' to support those horrific actions.

ISLAM.. IS DIFFERENT. and that's the thing you are currently missing.

All you seem to see is 'poor minority muslims attacked by racist whites/westerners' etc.

You mentioned Cronulla as an example, but DIDN'T mention that some of those in the crowd..DOING the attacking were in fact Aboriginal!
Some of the crowd could not even speak ENGLISH....but they knew what Cronulla residents had been subjected to over a long period of years..and they were sick sick SICK of it.

Honestly mate..you need some exposure to a broader set of truths.
A study of the expansion of Islam would be worthwhile.

Do you support a 'DOCTRINE' of wife_beating ?
Theory: see Quran 4:34
Practice:
-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWGA8i6scYY
-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nUI3TUdFCk&NR=1 <--important!

see how the WOMEN see it.....(2nd vid)

Do you support a 'DOCTRINE' of sexual abuse of captive women? see surah 23:5-6

Do you support a 'DOCTRINE' which enables old men to:
-Marry
-Sexually use
-Divorce
pre-pubescent female children?

See Surah 65:4 as it stands, and if in doubt see Maududi's Islamic commentary here
http://www.tafheem.net/main.html
click on 'At-talaaq' then scroll to verse 4, then scroll to paragraph *13

Well...do you? seriously ..do you ?