Yeah, Tammy-Jo, its a tough one.

I think you understand that I don't mean we should leave them to rot in futility. I think its the WAY we do it that gets up my nose.

If one of my kids had been murdered in a war and I saw some paunchy, well-preserved Big-wig, all shiny brass buttons and a chest full of fruit salad, piously placing a wreath I'd probably want to king hit him.

I guess its all the cant and hypocrisy from those who continue to use human sacrifices in their games and thus generate more willing sacrifices that I object to. If we remember them then I think it should be with the spouses and parents screaming their pain to the cameras. The only ones to make speeches should be those who had lost a mate or partner or parent. We should all dress in black and be thoroughly ashamed of ourselves. While the politicians and the Brass should wear sackcloth and ashes and be reviled.

I obviously do not envisage the above as a realistic scenario but perhaps it illustrates more fully my objections to the day? While we "celebrate" the dead instead of mourning them, see them as heroes instead of victims, then war will continue to be glorified

The absolute worst aspect of celebrating Anzac Day is the misrepresentation of not just the overall outcome of the campaign, but of the Anzac soldiers' qualities. Most recent Australian historians agree that the Anzacs were manifestly slothful, rude to officers and it has been documented that many ran from the battle in fear. Regardless of whether or not this cowardliness was justified, the fact remains that the portrayal of our soldiers in the 'Anzac Legend' is sophistry. Instead of celebrating a myth and lies, Anzac Day should be replaced simply by Australia Day. Why can't we honour those who went to war for our country whilst celebrating our values as well. That way, instead of spuriously convincing ourselves the Anzacs were supermen, we can acknowledge the ideals that Australia strives to attain, which is what Anzac Day currently is.

War experiences, at home and abroad, have shaped Australia's post-Federation history like nothing else. It would be more than petty to suggest Anzac Day is overplayed in Australian importance. It would be disrespectful and offensive and plainly wrong. It is appropriate, also, to remember that the nation's commemoration of its fallen is not some misplaced celebration of glory.

It is an occasion for reflection, an opportunity to consider the price freedom-loving people are willing (and sometimes compelled) to pay for a way of life, a time to consider how the privileges of today were afforded by sacrifices of the past and to contemplate what might have been had nations been willing to settle their differences by means other than aggression.

When Australians pay homage at dawn services, they participate in a nation's reflection. They should not be embarrassed when their throats turn to lumps or their eyes mist over. The fallen deserve nothing less. So, too, do those who served and survived.

When I want a dressing down from you Bronwyn, I'll send you an embossed invitation, specifically because I was addressing someone else.

"The British did abandon us in WW2............."
Posted by mac, Thursday, 24 April 2008 11:40:25 AM

I was referring to THIS post above mine which I COULD read swiftly because it was short. I understand even in that quoted post that Mac HAS referred to the tactics of Churchill, but I am referring to the quote "the British",-(which I quoted),-and THAT refers to the nation; the people;-the military personnel.

It is unnecessary to mention THE BRITISH if one is referring to the actions of Churchill alone.

I asked Mac 'to SPECIFY' because I do not like the inference that British soldiers 'abandoned' their ANZAC comrades. They did not.

OK??............Bronwyn. I really don't want to waste any further time justifying myself to you....

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Izzo:- absolutely spot on! Bravo to you!

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Each to their own opinion, but I will leave it to the survivors of war who will march tomorrow to decide for themselves the relevance of the day. It is their business.

"Lest We Forget".

That's what it's all about. Many people were traumatised by the war(s). It was a significant part of their family history and they don't want to see it forgotten.

BUT... STOP....how any of the very same people argue that Australian Aborigines should forget their traumas? Aboriginal people, nearly all of them, were traumatised by their experiences in the undeclared war that took place. They can't possibly forget it. But they are repeatedly told their traumas should be swept under the carpet - or, worse, it didn't really happen to them.

If we remove the military heroics and celebration from the ANZAC celebrations, and we appreciate it as a general reflection on war, then that's okay. But we have to be consistent. We have to allow closure for Aboriginal people who suffered great traumas.

Australia virtually closes down for a day and saturates its media to commemorate one historical circumstance, but virtually no space is allowed for another. There is no special day for that abhorrent history. We are like the modern day Germans who feel so embarrassed by what Hitler did on their behalves they still find it hard to talk about.

Give the ANZACS their due, but let's not cringe from our other victims of war.

Gecko

Excellent point re: Aboriginal Trauma.

Perhaps a national day of mourning would be a more appropriate reflection on the futility of war; the effects of war spans generations. My father returned an alcoholic and manic/depressive, I suffer from depression to the level where I have wasted any opportunity for a meaningful career.

My father like most men did not talk about his war experiences, I do know he loathed guns, would not join his mates to go hunting. As a little girl I asked him if he had ever killed anyone, he said he didn't know. I asked him if he was a hero, he said you have to be seen to be a hero.

To all the valiant men and women whose efforts and lives were valiantly wasted in war, may we never forget.

But when will we ever learn?