That's funny I always thought that divide and conquer was the hallmark of British colonial expansion from the 1600 onwards, and communism only got into its stride after 1917.

I have called HRS a misogynist. It's an accurate term and I stand by that. There were many, many posts responding to him before I did do that, and I wouldn't be so presumptuous to affix such a label unless I was quite confident.

I've not done it for any other posters, though there are quite a number who have issues with feminism.

I have laid out my reasoning behind this many times, but I'll reiterate.

If HRS can accept that some - not all, just some - feminists are making a worthwhile contribution to the gender debate and that being a feminist doesn't have to be a bad thing, then I'll happily retract the statement.

HRS has accepted that if someone defines themself as a feminist, then they are a feminist.

Most women hold some feminist ideals. I suspect most men do as well. It's not a cut and dry thing, there are many issues at stake.

Some feminists, are simply people who believe that women deserve equal rights as men.

HRS has categorically ruled out any feminist being reasonable - thus, he's also rejected women who think they should be on an even footing with men.

Clear line of logic and I don't see any holes. Anyone who would speak on behalf of women is to be vilified in your view.

You can prove me wrong, HRS, by stating that some, just some, feminists do make a worthwhile contribution to debate, even if they also make mistakes, or go overboard. I'm not denying that.

But you can't.

Because you're a misogynist, who cloaks himself in the mantle of a victimhood.

It's bull, however, and I don't buy it for a second. Call me an 'abusive feminist' all you like, but it's not feminism that's criticising you, it's just me.

Though I see that you like to take any criticism of men and say it's the work of feminism. Of course you hate it then. Any criticism, of a man, anywhere, is now the work of the evil feminists in your warped view.

billie

“The article by Kellie Tranter is described as "Women who speak out for equal rights - the same rights, not special rights”

a-b-s-o-l-u-t-e-l-y c-o-r-r-e-c-t

Those men who believe that women are not as competent to hold executive positions as men, should not object to equal rights for women. According to their logic, there would be no change in the neighbourhood.

Other men who deny women equality, would be those who feel threatened that they could be displaced, or disadvantaged for promotion. Thus, tacit agreement that women are as competent as men.

Col Rouge

Your description of me couldn’t be more wrong.

I don’t make assumptions about you - other than what is self-evident - you are a bully; and I suspect, have an unduly inflated opinion of your own worth.

Anecdotal experience, case study, is often the basis for empirical evidence.

Are you one of the mushroom people, who prefer to be kept in the dark and fed bullsh@t.

Another anecdote: A CEO said that executives should know their teams so well as to predict their responses.

“I ... am entitled to express my views”

Indeed you are, and I am entitled to point out that they have no relevancy in the 21st century.

“ men ... made the necessary decisions too?”

Is this more of the same; or are you stating that men have had to make decisions about getting pregnant also?

“you fail to quantify how much organizational disruption”

In a well run organisation, there is no disruption. Long leave is accommodated.

You missed my point about about Margaret Thatcher.

If you are ever about to be operated on by a female surgeon, do think PMT ...

“The arrogance of feminism ... we presently are”

I still maintain your last para was incoherent ... too much beer, perhaps; or a very cheap brew.

HRS: "The word misogynist is probably one of the words most often used by feminists to abuse others. I have been called misogynist many times by various feminists (and in particular by the highly abusive feminists Turnrightthenleft and a C.J Morgan)"

So, you have been called a misogynist by two male posters on OLO. And TRTL's reasoning is not that "issues with feminism," but because he believes you think anyone "who would speak on behalf of women is to be vilified" and you reject "women who think they should be on an even footing with men."

In other words, he doesn't call you a misogynist because you have questioned feminism, but because he honestly believes you are a misogynist.

So, you cannot prove that "The word misogynist is probably one of the words most often used by feminists to abuse others" or that “If someone questions feminism, the normal response from a feminist is to say that the person is a misogynist.”

Whitty is still yet to prove that some feminists "trot out the term misogynist to any male that disagrees with any feminist position."

As TRTL says, if you have the proof, I'm happy to see it. But I'm a feminist and so are both my male and female friends, and yet I seldom hear the term misogynist. It is rare to hear it on OLO.

So either it's going on in another arena, in which case I'd like to know where, or it's a myth.

I'm sure I sound snarky about this, but it's important. The men on this board have called women man-haters (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=7088#108096) and female supremacists (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=7088#108536). And yet they say that it is they who are being insulted, that feminists call men who question feminism misogynists.

If it's true, back it up.

Vanilla,
You have just finished calling someone on another forum a “sleazy puritanical god-botherer”. As a feminist, you may not realize it, but you have just abused someone.

The most abusive posters on OLO would definitely be feminists, and the word misogynist is used so often by feminists that it has as much meaning as “all men are rapists”.

If anyone wants to call themselves an “ist” after last century, then they must have no idea of history, or perhaps feminist history does not take into account the 100 million who died last century under Marxist regimes, and feminism is very closely related to Marxism.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41944

Last century millions also died fighting, so that they would not be compelled to call themselves an “ist”. So one of the things that feminists want, is for people to call themselves an “ist”.

Feminists have learnt nothing from history, and feminism is likely to teach people nothing also.

I think the following sums up feminism in this country quite clearly:-

"Making it OK to be Male (pdf file) (is one paper that should be compulsory reading for anyone wanting to learn about the problems caused by the way men have been emasculated by the feminist agenda. For too long, especially at school, boys, and men, have been told that they are part of the problem, not part of the solution. Instead of celebrating masculinity in a positive way, men are portrayed as misogynist, violent and emotionally crippled."

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=679&page=2

Feminism has done very little except vilify males, destroy families, disrupt society, and introduce some of the most discriminatory laws ever introduced into the country.

Hopefully in future years, women will be using International Women’s Day to celebrate the removal of feminism from society.

SJF, "Oppressed people make just as many choices as non-oppressed people. It’s just that their choices are much more controlled."

Who do you consider are the oppressed and who are the non-oppressed in your post?

I'm tempted to make assumptions and join in a game of "my oppression is bigger than your oppression" but left my response long enough to remind myself how unhelpfull that game can be. If you think that men are the non-oppressed and you are willing to review that assumption have a read of William Farrell's book "The Myth of Male Power".

I may be persuaded to provide examples (and if you ask JamesH very nicely I'm sure that he would be willing to ablige).

Most of us suffer and benefit in different ways from social pressure. Most of us contribute to it when it suits our interests as well or even when it does not suit our interests if we have grown to believe in something strongly.

I'm very aware of the pressure working mums can face from others, a particular pressure that men rarely face. I have a very close friend who cops that from some of her extended family. It's ugly and not backed up by a willingness to reduce the financial pressures which require her to work full time.

R0bert