Billie

I fully agree.

When a woman simply states she believes in equal rights and opportunities as men, she is subjected to a tirade of misinformation and name calling.

I know that there are wonderful men who agree with equal rights for the sexes, and a very small percentage of them post here. But they are too often drowned out by the noise of the usual suspects who just basically don't like women as people as opposed to desiring women.

This is why I haven't bothered posting here much at all.

Until women have equal representation in leadership positions in politics, business and all aspects of human endeavour we cannot be said to have true equality.

All the bluster in the world does not change the above fact, that in this world (both in developed and underdeveloped countries) women have yet to achieve equal numbers as decision makers.

Sure, for western women we have made some progress, but we still represent only a third of politicians (at best). We do have a ways to go, however, I also believe we will get there. The men I know are nothing like HRS, and I believe his ilk are really very much the dinosaurs of the male gender.

So, Billie, don't be too dismayed, there are lots of men who do want true equality as much as we do

Yoh! Hey, Yab-miester -

What makes you assume that, unlike you, I do not depend upon the word of anthropologists for information regarding anthropology? Yes, I have got little bits of paper attesting to my qualification in Lit. and Drama from a recent stint at Uni, but first time round my field was Anthropology and Sociology. I do not think there's anything in any of my posts to suggest that I habitually mouth off on subjects about which I know nothing. (But hey, provide excerpts if this is not the case)

Your patronising scenario to refute the claim that perhaps the man-as-hunter, woman-as-dependent scenario is a later construct by scholars anachronistically applying contemporary sociological division may seem "possible" to you, but appears ludicrous to me. And is not at all what was meant.

I was merely arguing that to base contemporary mores on the premise that things have always been thus and that it was the natural order of things may be a flawed proposition. The facts attesting that, for as long as we have been able to hear women's voices they have felt there was nothing "natural" about it was provided to shore up this argument.

You and others seem continually to blame some nebulous and recent "feminist" opponent both for your own misfortunes and the state of the world. I was merely pointing out that we cannot be certain that the two genders did not start off from a society organised not along gender lines, but along those of natural aptitude and ability. In which case THAT would be the natural order of things. This then, could provide a reason for dissatisfaction between genders forced to undertake societally different constructs.

It's a discussion for crissake, not a war in which each sides seeks to point out how badly the enemy has treated them!

Romany, "It's a discussion for crissake, not a war in which each sides seeks to point out how badly the enemy has treated them!"

Spot on.

R0bert

Billie,

'are often described as being 'man-haters', or worse."...
Attaching a derogatory label belittles any attempt at meaningful dialog and significant change'

As does trotting out the term misogynist to any male that disagrees with any feminist position. Notice how few people know the meaning of the word Misandrist.

I would say all the men I know are in favour of equal rights for women. I believe women do have equal rights in most respects in our society.

What I rally against is tokenism and wanting equal representation in everything, denial of any gender differences, misrepresentation of stats, blaming men for 'society', not taking responsibility for your own choices, saying something is too expensive, and then still paying for it (eg clothes and haircuts).

I believe women have the same OPPORTUNITYS as men, and it's ridiculous to cry discrimination every time women aren't the same as men. Nobody ever imagines women are making the CHOICE not to further their career, and a lot are happy with their life balance.

Any discrepancy in representation is automatically assumed discrimination. Some feminist arguments are as stupid as say... men complaining that we spend more on cars because women makes us because they like guys with a nice car. That's the quality of a lot of these arguments.

Do you know the average height of CEO's is about 4 inches above the population average. If it was women instead of short men, discrimination would be the cry!

Fractelle,

'Until women have equal representation in leadership positions in politics, business and all aspects of human endeavour we cannot be said to have true equality.'

Just what are we going to do if women don't want to be in these positions, and we just cant find enough women who are interested in the roles?

Hey Whitty, I posted something to you which has got a bit lost in the kerfuffle - my last post above: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=7088#108590

No obligation, but I'd love to know what I said to make you believe I believed something so inimical to my actual thoughts.

Vanilla,

I only have my memory to rely on, perhaps I got this impression from your defence of Bronwyn. There's too many blogs for me to keep up with. Sorry I cannot find where you have said this. The way you have used standing on the sidelines a couple of times leads me to believe that has got you riled up.

'Secondly, women contribute to the standard of living, both by generating wealth and by supporting men who generate wealth. Both men and women reap the resultant rewards.
'
I was talking more about the riches stolen by the west from the third world, by use of miltary superiority. Many women in their fictional women's world with no war and total cooperation between countries fail to see the befits they have gained by all that nasty male violence and competition. If all women were lining the streets and protesting about every war, rather than handing out white feathers... OK I am just winding you up now:-)