Whitty,

When I mentioned “waxing”, I wasn’t referring to legs. :-[

Also, unfortunately, it is the companies who employ executive women, who demand they be extremely well-dressed - even if the women are part-time. You only have to see women struggling to get dressed and made-up, and trying to leave the house on time, with toddlers screaming and pulling at them, or babies being sick down the back of their jackets, or older children “losing” something, to realise just how stressful this can be. It is even worse, when women also have to prepare their children for nursery, or pre-school. After being already stressed “to the max”, these women now have to appear calm and collected and face a day, which has its own stressors.

And it can’t be denied, that if a woman looks old, even if very experienced, her chances of getting a job drop dramatically - a man can be virtually toothless. So women have to make their move early in the workplace.

As for Branson, he started in a particularly “informal” field - also owns his empire. I guarantee he expects his female executives, in appearance, to “reflect” the success of his business. I don’t know if it is quite the same now, but a woman was considered an asset (and not in a sexy way) if she dressed and presented herself well.

Vanilla, Fractelle,

“… a few men.” I agree. You've both brought a smile to my face. The amount of time I have spent trying to argue with feminists that most men didn't vote either not too long before feminism.

'that feminists are hoping to “win.” '
I've always said no matter what laws or power or status women achieve, they will NEVER be happy:-) Therefore I don't think they can win.

Bronwyn,

'they'll soon learn what invisibility is all about'

I think this is at the crux of it. Most men are ALWAYS invisible. Women just don't appreciate how lucky they are to be desired all the time. I for one would love to be wolf whistled or perved at in a non discrete way. I remember being hit on by a guy once, and being flattered, and thinking it must be great to be a woman. I even learnt why women are tempted to tease men, it's a wonderful feeling of power. So what I'm saying it's just one side of a two sided coin. Maybe women are drunk on the power of their own beauty, and fear their loss of power as they age.

'forced to waste more and more time and money'
'forced'? They are CHOOSING to. They are simply vain. You know why men aren't 'forced' to? Because they don't allow themselves to be. My mates and I constantly ridicule each others efforts and expense to look good. Vanity is discouraged in male circles and encouraged in female ones.

There seems to be this attitude out there (Not necessarily by the posters here) that men are forcing women to look a certain way. I think it's much more other womans influence, and to men it seems like a closed circle of obsession with celebrity, fashion, cosmetics and plastic surgery that we stand on the outside and look in at in a state of bemusement. Then we are told it is men who are the opressors in this because we dare to be attracted to women.

Although Richard Branson has always been hirsute and worn jeans to work his Virgin Blue empire is very prejudiced against overweight and older workers. Virgin Blue has admitted not hiring anyone over age 36 and the uniforms provided for female cabin crew highights every extra gram lurking on the belly.

As Danielle mentioned grooming, those women whose ancestors hail from the Mediterranean know that a leg wax costs $35, its not a DIY operation, a razor is no substitute as smooth hairless legs are compulsory under a skirt. A woman pays far more for an equivalent haircut than man, often double or triple.

*Vanity is discouraged in male circles and encouraged in female ones.*

Exactly! Its females competing with each other, that is the real
issue here.

Bromwyn, if you look at just about any men right at the top of
the food chain, including Branson, Buffett, Murdoch, Walton, Gates
and a long list of others, few have any dress sense or care and
they generally don't give a hoot what others think about them.
That's perhaps one of the reasons why they have done so well.

What they fuss about is what customers think of their products, not
about them. Big difference!

Branson was frowned on by the British business establishment, for
a very long time. But of course in the real world, results speak
louder then anything.

Sadly there are very few female entrepreneurs out there.

As to the corporate world, yup, in any large company it gets very
bitchy and nasty, as everyone attempts to move up the food chain.
People put on their uniforms when they go to work, to suit the
workplace. The really smart ones are talented enough that they
don't need to bother, but others do. A friend of mine worked
for a large advertising agency in Europe. He was so good at his
job, his ads got such good results in the marketplace, that he
dictated the terms in the end, not the company he worked for.

Yes Branson fusses about the age of his hosties, what they wear etc,
as that is part of the product that he sells. He is selling a flying
experience after all. If you don't want to fuss about what you wear,
start your own business, or accept that wearing the company uniform
is part of your job.

Why are so many women failures at being entrepreneurs?

"Gender-orientated legislation and bureaucratic bodies to support it have been in place in Australia for a long time, but their impact seems to be lessening over time."

About time the affirmative action organisation was abandoned in recognition of the failure which it is.

This bleeding heart diatribe of apparent disgraces like

"a female CEO earns two-thirds the salary of her male counterpart; "

but are the sizes of their organisations comparative or skewed?

"in Human Resources, where women are more commonly found as top earners, the pay gap is still 43 per cent; "

but are the sizes of their organisations comparative or skewed?

Anyway, my observation of HR is it is a complete waste of effort and the strong organisation will leave the authority with the line managers and minimise the HR function to a parttime consultant.

"60 per cent of female top earners work in the bottom 100 ASX200"

maybe they cannot compete in terms of "skill" (that mixture of technical ability and attitude) with the men, who do not need maternity leave. Being a "woman of childbearing age and inclination", is not a commercially valuable attribute when considering her for a significant management role. The potential disruption through pregnancy detracts and given two people of equal skill and merit, where one might get banged up and the other biologically unequipped for pregnancy, the one less likely to get preggers is the winner.

Anyway the best quote I know regarding the feminist cause is

"I owe nothing to Women's Lib."

Margaret Thatcher.

(And she had some of the biggest and hardest balls going)

Whitty & Yabby,
I think you need to dig a bit more deeply in the compost heap that is culture.

James,
Firstly, I completely agree with you about the Norwegian boardroom legislation. I am dismayed by it and I hope you will remember that not all feminists support this type of legislation. I believe that, if there was ever a time with affirmative action for women was appropriate, it is *long gone* and it’s insultingly patronising to suggest that women can’t make it on merit. And if we’re not, then we need to fix that — in meaningful ways. Because society would benefit if men and women werre represented equally on the average company boards — men and women are a natural fit, and skewing things either way creates a weaker orgnanism — but there are many things we can do to make it easier for both men and women to balance work and family life which would in turn make women more available for boardroom work. I would fight against this legislation if it were introduced in Australia.

Secondly, you didn’t answer me about the Office for Men. Is this what you’re seeking? Has any effective lobbying ever taken place?

Billie,
Excellent point re Branson. He’s such a tosser. I loathe Virgin Blue and its fake smiles and enforced bonhomie and its you-don’t-have-to-be-crazy-to-work-here-but-it-helps! ethos. Ugh.

Danielle,
You are doing a great job of being calm and reasonable in the face of a lot of people either deliberately or actually misreading your posts. Well done