'Ultimately an apology will engender greater respect and regard for the human rights of all Australians and we will be seen globally as more just, mature and compassionate beings.'

well said patmalar...shame that your bias elsewhere corrupts a very balanced sentence...so it makes it the usual feminist 'promote a good image while acting in self-interest' routine...

for example...attended a conference for women lawyers in sydney...dont see the sexist attitude in that...its as divisive as colour or any other base used to advance a select population...its the same imbalance that required an apology to aboriginals...now after all the current 'favouritism/advantage/imbalanced empowerment' that is enjoyed by women it seems that women need to apologize to men...dont you think...

dont you think if the all that effort to organize your conference was not for 'women lawyers' but 'lawyers wanting same recognition for same quality of work'...would have been better and you recognizing it, the sexist/racist/feminist tone as a first step...

I dont think pointing out this imbalance will do any good...it will just drive the deceit to more subtle subconscious state to obtain same... but I worry about people like you holding position of power... and even more that you are a barrister representing children...but hopefully it will lead you to a reanalysis and move to the balanced floor...not in words but consistent acts...

Sam

“How can we live guilt and conscience free lives with third world conditions that, cause death and suffering to our Aboriginal citizens?”

Those of us who ‘can’ are not guilt-ridden weaklings. What happened in the past should be left in the past, and it is the bleeding hearts like this author who are encouraging aboriginal Australians to adopt a victim mentality instead of doing something for themselves. Those people of indigenous background who live in urban society – not in isolation away from jobs – have taken the same opportunities available to all Australians. No amount of ‘compassion’ or money is going to help people who will not help themselves.

There is no place in Australia for separate development.

Society cannot “provide” any particular lifestyle to aborigines of mixed blood or full blood, as this author asks. All that can be done for them – in the same way it is done for disadvantaged whites – is to offer what is available. If they don’t want to take advantage of what is on offer, that’s their business and they must take the consequences of preferring to live out their lives in squalor.

Aboriginal Australia has had enough time since the ‘stolen generation’ to opt for better lives. The ones who have done this for themselves, with or without interference, are proof that changes can be made.

We never hear about the people who have lifted themselves out of the Stone Age. There’s nothing in it for the activists and do-gooders, who prefer to agitate, whine, and perpetrate the hand-out mentality enabling people to slowly rot.

This is what Patmalar Ambikapathy and friends should feel guilty about. It is their “state of denial”, not Turnbull’s, Nelson’s or Abbot’s that they should be coming to terms with. PA and company and the Prime Minister can have as many blots on their souls as they like; realists stick to commonsense.

The author has one thing right – ‘sorry’ was just a symbolic gesture used to make the guilt-lovers feel good.

If you don't agree with Kevin Rudd's apology on behalf of himself, his government and his parliament, simply tell every Koori you see "I'm a realist and I'm not sorry and you don't deserve an apology." When you've told enough of them they will inevitably come to their senses and feel grateful for all we've done for them.

There were about 50,000 aboriginal children who were removed from their parents over many years.

There are about 20,000 children each year who are being removed from their father, under a malicious, feminist and totally inhuman system called “Family Law”.

In terms of numbers, the current system of child abduction far outweighs the system of child abduction carried out on Aborigines many years ago.

No matter what the whites did it would be wrong in the 'experts' eyes. The number of indigenous leaders who justify abhorrent tribal practices which include sexual abuse of children today is incredible. This fact is conveniently ignored by academics.

We face the same difficult issues today than the early settlers did. Do we leave kids in total dysfunctional alcohol , drug and pornography infested communities to save culture or do we rescue the kids? I for one am very sorry that some of our white men raped and slept with aboriginal women and then failed to take up their responsibilities as parents. I am sorry we allowed the social engineers in the name of equal rights to destroy huge numbers of people by introducing grog to the communities. I am sorry that we had stupid Governments like that of Gough Whitlam that introduced sit down money that had led to every sin a person could imagine. I am sorry that the likes of Whitlam and Fraser have never apologised for such misguided policy. I am sorry that many people who gave up their lives to serve the aboriginals are now labeled as abusers. I am sorry that the many politicians have made political mileage out of keeping the indigenous people as victims rather than a people with dignity.

Somehow the experts infer that unless a person goes along with the politically correct crap that they lack compassion. I suspect many of the abusers in the communities have seen the Governments apology as some sort of vindication for their crimes

If there was such a wrong done, why are we not trying to prosecute the politicians, many of whom are still alive, some who are still in government who were complicit in this practice that was supposedly still happening in 1970.

Surely such a heinous crime deserves true justice....

What a load of rubbish Leigh, you have once on the situation regarding saying sorry, because if the present generation as you say cannot be responsible for the past deeds of other generations. Then the current generation should not be liable for paying previous generations on old aged pensions, or ex servicemen financial support.

You wonder why Indigenous people can't get on with our lives read s51 of the Constution as Howard did, he knew we didn't have the same equal rights as other Australians and that is why he sent in the troops into the NT.

Its also very clear that whilst whites like you with your uneducated views towards Indigenous people are preventing Indigenous people from rising above their circumstances and standing on there own two feet.

Hey Bennie I dare you to go up to Anthony Mundine and shoot your big mouth off and see what happents to you, and you can expect the same from any other Koori except the females which would be easier for you.

Runner your a goose mate. The whole Indigenous community can not be held liabel for the behaviour of people in the middle of nowhere as you can't be held responsible for thois whites appearing on my television for anti social behaviour, rape murder etc. Our law would have sorted this out in minute whilst yours lets this scum get away with it. It a white man in the news claiming the rape of a n Aboriginal child was okay and the judge accepted this crap.

"Its also very clear that whilst whites like you with your uneducated views towards Indigenous people are preventing Indigenous people from rising above their circumstances and standing on there own two feet."

Indigenous people need permission from whites to stand on their own to feet?

Yindin

You confirm that Mr Rudd's apology means nothing in practice. It certainly has not made you any more civilized.

I will agree with you though that it is the dumb white judges who refuse to deal with the child abusers. It is the dumb Government that gives power to the likes of ATSIC and wonder why no money gets through to the people who need it. As I said before it should be the Whitlams and the Frasers saying sorry for their dumb policies.

Grey says "If there was such a wrong done, why are we not trying to prosecute the politicians, many of whom are still alive."
An excellent point, and in addition, put them on trial as war criminals for their participation in murdering 1.2 million Iraqis and dispossessing 4.5 million; a horrendous crime whereby the Iraqi people might not recover and still far from finished.
The day before the politicians and their crodile tears, in the "sorry" event, some 2000 aboriginals were protesting in Canberra about the governments intended use of military/police to grab aboriginal land in the N.T. for mining then using aboriginals as a very cheap source of labour in the mines and on stock stations. The governments devious campaign has gone ahead on behalf of 'big business'under the lying pretext of "helping or protecting the children from abuse." There are 72 settlements involved. As well, a part of selling the uranium ore overseas has been an assurance to take back depleted uranium and dump it in the N.T.
Significantly, the media promoted the "sorry" event. Two hundred years of genocide of our aboriginal brothers and sisters like the Iraqis is not over. It is only "sorry" to the next time comes around. It was the Labor Party in Western Australia who first targetted "the stolen generation" on behalf of "big business" and the land grab. To breed out 'no future claims on the land'. There is a causal link in the land grab in the N.T. but in a different form.

Another article written by another lawyer.

I supposed freedom of speech applies to them too, although a lot of lawyers I know of do not put pen to paper unless someone is footing the bill.

I wrote this for the other “lawyer thread”

A society which separates its people based on race is a racist society.
Expecting special consideration from government based on ethnicity is racist.

Demanding compensation for past wrongs inflicted on say ancestors is invalid since the claimant did not suffer the loss.

In claiming compensation for being removed from a dangerous domestic situation, I would expect the claimant needs to “prove” the intention which prompted the action and records may well cast a different perspective to the circumstances of removal, I don’t rate the chances of any compensation claims.

Even if claims are settled, I doubt it will do any good. The things which are been sought, words like “sorry” or monetary compensation for supposed wrongs and slights are not going to achieve anything.

Only achievement through personal excursion (be it physical, intellectual or by moving to a place where things are better, like nearly every migrant who has come and formed a life in Australia) will produce the self-esteem and self respect which those who continually have their hand out are really seeking.

“Cargo-cult cultures”, funded by government handouts, do not produce “happy people” (just as you see no smiling faces on the punters in casinos). It is only thought self-esteem and self-reliance that “happiness” is generated.

I am tempted to respond to Yindin but self-restraint intervenes, at least at this stage.

Col's like one of those turtles you whack at an amusement arcade. No sooner do you whack him than he scuttles away and pops up somewhere else, this time simply copying and pasting his racist drivel to yet another thread.

I see he's in mostly good company here, with a couple of notable exceptions. It's probably therapeutic for OLO's racists and obsessives to get together on one thread to vent their disgruntled spleens.

Saying sorry was indeed just the first step, in so many ways. Part of where we go from here involves dealing with that small but shrill minority of racists who've come out from under their rocks since the Prime Minister's historic Apology. Identifying them is a good second step.

Given that something like 70% of the electorate approves Rudd's apology, it must be clear to the nay-sayers that they are out of step with the nation. I suspect that they are generally feeling cornered and defensive, which is why they're all hissing and spitting like cornered snakes (or just babbling away deliriously in some cases).

It'll be nice once they realise just how out of touch they are with their fellow Australians, and accept that the current Australian Prime Minister, Parliament and People are greater than they are. That might be a third step.

Some of you do go on a bit.

Responding to what someone said very early in this thread, there are now more than twenty two thousand Indigenous university graduates in Australia, with another 1200 more each year. The birth-rate boom of the eighties and onwards is just hitting tertiary age, so graduate numbers will reach fifty thousand by 2020, twelve years away. By 2050, who knows, there could easily be one hundred thousand Indigenous university graduates across Australia. Two thirds currently are women, overwhelmingly Indigenous graduates are in the cities. If the men lifted their game, who knows what might be achieved ? It certainly would give the Aboriginal industry people far less to whinge about.

CJ Morgan “Col's like one of those turtles you whack at an amusement arcade.”

Well at least I would be giving amusement to some,

You, on the other hand, present more like the fairy floss which is on sale in the same arcades

it looks a lot to start with but when checked out, just melts down to an unsubstaintial, sickly nothingness.

“this time simply copying and pasting his racist drivel to yet another thread.”

Maybe you could challenge the racist content which you bluster on about.

Like I said previously on this and other posts and am happy to repeat here

“A society which separates its people based on race is a racist society.
Expecting special consideration from government based on ethnicity is racist.”

You claim I am a racist,

So justify your pathetic posturing and grand standing,

So come on, motor mouth,

debate the point

challenge my view

try your best to be a man, place your reasoning up for debate and I will be happy to counter it.

Sigh. Somebody mentioned recently the necessity of repetition when dealing with the intellectually challenged.

Col the Troll: “A society which separates its people based on race is a racist society.
Expecting special consideration from government based on ethnicity is racist.”

Australia doesn't separate its people based on the outmoded social construct of "Race", despite the persistence of some racists who still like to categorise people into biological "races".

Aboriginal people are the descendants of the original ingabitants of what is now Australia, who have been systematically deprived of their lands and way of life, and who have been subject to the very worst treatment and neglect by colonial, State and Federal governments, and by countless settlers over the past two centuries or so.

While Aboriginality might technically be a form of ethnicity, in the Australian context Aboriginal people differ from other ethnicities due to their very well-documented history of having been singled out for the very worst treatment (often on "racial" grounds) by governments and settlers - no other ethnic group originated here, nor was subject to the systematic processes of expropriation, massacre and institutional neglect to which Aboriginal people have been since British colonisation.

If a belated program of redress and reconciliation involves "special consideration from government", then that might be construed by a shrill and embittered minority of racists as constituting 'positive discrimination', but it is certainly not racism.

Col's aware of all this, of course - or should be, since it's all been said to him before. He hasn't refuted it before, despite some fairly devious sophistry, and I bet he won't be able to this time - at least without some puerile resort to trying to cause offence to those with whom he disagrees but can't bully.

CJ Morgan says "Australia doesn't separate its people based on the outmoded social construct of "Race".
This was from an article in 2004. "Locked away under Australia’s mandatory detention policy are pregnant women, babies and unaccompanied children as young as eight. There are currently 582 child prisoners. They include 53 who are unaccompanied by adults, of whom 40 are in the remote Woomera camp on the edge of the South Australian desert." http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/dec2001/refu-d11.shtml
And another report paints a picture of refugees who have fled persecution at home only to languish in detention in Australia in grossly inadequate facilities, suffering from depression and desperation, with women and children facing the constant risk of assault. Staff exhibit low morale and often treat the refugees as criminals. The abuse of immigrants has been notorious and systematic. The White Australia policy is still in force used by the ALP and Liberals. Racism is a tool used to create divisions but it is not the main issue - class dominates over race. The White Australia policy was implemented originating through the trade unions to keep workers divided through nationalism and away from socialist internationalism.

Will Rudd stop stealing generations?

HRS came to my rescue and I will only add some points.
Definitely Rudd have done a very good step. Let's ask him to make many more such steps. I do not make any difference between ethnic groups. And my statements which are based on personal experience and observation also apply to aborigines. When anybody including government takes away children from both or one parent, it is no different to any mafia or terrorists kidnapping children. So our children are being kidnapped. It is legal crime of highest weight.
Number two. This is creation of thousands dysfunctional people. Those innocent children will never learn how to interact with two parents, with spouse in their future marriage, to solve conflict and to share good and bad times. They are being crippled for life. I do not want to go into my tragedy induced by government because it may be a bit off topic and not everyone may enjoy my personal (in general terms however) here is the address.
http://niezmienny.googlepages.com/legaldestructionoffamilies - my webpage
The next point is that Family Court of Australia has absolutely no basis to exist. I found it and also asked VIP who have absolutely no justification for existence of this family destroying organisation.
There is saying power, money and sex are driving all decision makers.
Here is one reason why we have divorces. "Legal industry as any other industry seek maximum profit at minimal effort".
"What would happen to our families if judges and lawyers were paid for each saved family, and nothing for each destroyed as now"?
I think we should start talking about stolen generation and continuing stealing generations as a major legal crime.
No it is no contradiction. As Hitler have committed crime (all know that) and it was legal because drafted in parliament by the rulers. All they does not preclude that government can and do commit crime.
When any crime and in particular this type of crime against innocent children and both parents and also society is being committed, everyone suffers in consequence.

CJMorgan “Australia doesn't separate its people based on the outmoded social construct of "Race",

“….While Aboriginality might technically be a form of ethnicity,”

dictionary.com came up with

“Ethnicity Identity with or membership in a particular racial, national, or cultural group and observance of that group's customs, beliefs, and language.”

Discrimination “treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: eg. racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.”

CJMorgan “as constituting 'positive discrimination', but it is certainly not racism.”

CJMorgan would have us believe he is not supporting “racism”, but he is a supporter of “ethnicism” .

I am sure such a point of “linguistic distinction” might slip past the most erudite of English scholars but one thing CJMorgan is not is an “English Scholar”.

“discrimination” is “discrimination” from the dictionary, it is to treat or consider someone on a set of qualities beyond those of “individual merit”.

“Positive discrimination” being used to favour an "ethnic group" who conform to a defined “ethnicity” is, equally “negative discrimination” toward those citizens who do not conform to that ethnicity.

You can call it what you want CJMorgan,

Ultimately you are advocating discrimination in favour of aborigines and against non-aborigines.

You can say it is not racial, racism or “racially based “ whilst admitting it is "ethnical", "ethnicism" and “ethnically based".

So, the “merit of the individual” is discarded and replaced with an ethnically based qualification, which many, regardless of their "Merit", cannot aspire to.

I have consistently promoted the view that all people are entitled to equal treatment under our laws and governmental services.

CJMorgan has consistently reviled me for being a racist.

and my support of the equal application of the law and governmental services is "racist".

CJMorgan claims he is not a racist.

So, since CJMorgan has admitted he supports “ethnically based discrimination”, can anyone tell me, what on earth is he?

Col Rouge: "You can call it what you want CJMorgan"

Er, no Col. It was you who claimed

“A society which separates its people based on race is a racist society.
Expecting special consideration from government based on ethnicity is racist.”

I refuted that and, rather than acknowledging that the Apology was not racist, Col attempts to change the subject.

Col's most recent curmudgeonly tirade against Aboriginal people serves only to emphasise publicly the deep racism that pervades his posts on this subject.

Is this chick for real?

When are you "human rights" dills going to get it through your noggins that nobody - or group of people - has/had any right against history charging forward? No right against what you so weasely call "colonialism."

Life never stops, history moves on, crap happens.

Stop boring the crap out of the rest of us by constantly trying to take another bite at the cherry of history.

Sorry I was directing comments to CJ Morgan not Col Rouge in last post...silly me!

Sorry! (I made a mistake, I am accountable for my actions as it was my mistake, therefore I am more than happy to say sorry, WHEN A SORRY IS DUE!)

Um Col, I think that the basis of the apology was because the stolen generations came about through policies such as those cited below.

“A society which separates its people based on race is a racist society.
Expecting special consideration from government based on ethnicity is racist.”

Indigenous children were removed from their families based on race, particularly if there was a possibility that they had a non-Indigenous genetic contributor. These children were seperated from their mothers and families based on race. These children were not accepted into the white society as full citizens if at all, they were to be a servant class. Don't you just love the quaint english concept of racial superiority.

The purpose of the removals was to breed out the colour, (and breed out the colour) and culture. This action fits the criteria of genocide.

The non-Indigenous folk certainly separated its people based on race and expect/ed special consideration from government based on ethnicity. They expected land unencumbered by its rightful owners, they expected the right to oportunity and wealth and they expected that the country's people could be ordered around, or masacred at will. They also expected that it was their right to rip children from their parent's arms without recourse. Indigenous parents condemned to poverty by less wages, based on race, and with governmental control over the meagre wage they did recieve.

Col, Australia has it roots as a racist society. The Sorry Day was about writing a new page unfettered by racist ideology.

Very well said, Aka. I agree completely.

HRS have put it very well and if censors allow I want to add some more substance which is verifiable.
Perhaps the title of the subject should be “Will Rudd stop stealing generations?”.

Well, the current title is quite appropriate, it should be just the first step to stop legal crime against innocent children, their parents and society.

Taking children against the will of even one parent and without a good reason, is not in fact kidnapping and it is crime. When it has been legalised, it is legal crime like many dictators have done, nevertheless it is crime which must be stopped immediately and guilty charged for kidnapping. Family Law act of No Fault Divorce 1975 allow this legal crime.
http://niezmienny.googlepages.com/legaldestructionoffamilies - my webpage

I am not drawing anybody to my personal problems. I am using my personal tragedy in general terms to show the legal crime, the consequences of such politics and that it is against everybody in society.

Kevin Rudd have done the best I could imagine and there is a chance that he may take some extra steps.

Being quite ignorant in history prior to 1980s I only believe that aboriginal stolen generation issue was largely fueled by rasism. Continuation of stealing or kidnapping children cannot be categorised that way any more. Current problem is bit more complex. The higher the office one holds, the less responsibility one accepts. This can be attributed to immaturity and also to mean intent.
Definitely the commonly known lie that courts and government and UN care mainly and predominantly for the best interest of children is both illogical, cannot be truth and is against the facts.

What would happen to our families if all judges and lawyers were paid only for each saved family and nothing for each destroyed as is the case at present?
Legal industry as any other industry seek maximum benefit at minimal effort.
Who said that judges do not act in the best interest of their own children?