Spy,

The Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al-Aqsa and other militant groups all have a presence in Egypt and Jordan. They lack general active support in those countries because the populations are not oppressed nor their countries occupied nor is their land being stolen. You must recognise the fact these groups came to exist and their resulting prominance only as a result of the occupation. Their extremist nature is only supported because of the on going Israeli meddling, suppression, occupation and land stealing.

Why do you think Hamas etc won't respond to the wishes of all Palestinians? I can show you where they have responded to the wider community views. Their last election manifesto where they went against there charter was a perfect example. If the Palestinians desire peace with Israel and if concrete evidence of such peace-making is exhibited by Israel then the support for these militants would decrease substiantially.

Yours is the view that perpretrates the problem ... you cannot accept negotiations with Palestinians without accepting the extremists would lose support if Israel was in any way showeing it was genuinely seeking peace with the Palestinians. And again you've fallen back to the unrea;stic defence of threats to Israels security. You seem to think only Israel shouldn't be subject to the dangers we all face today and you use it as an excuse to continue the occupation, suppression and land stealing.

The author writes: "Even though Jews had been persecuted in Europe for centuries...." Although my father was Jewish, I still don't know why the Jews have been so persecuted for so long in so many parts of the world. Can anyone please explain?

Keith & Lev,

These issues have been covered over and over again, see:

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=6475&page=0#1
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=6426&page=0#95452
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=6282&page=0#9
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=6282&page=0#94750
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=6282&page=0#93166
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=5939&page=0#85630

Incidentally, Lev, it does you no credit to misrepresent yourself. The level of abuse both you and Keith sink to is indicative of your intelligence, prejudice, and complete lack on
understanding of the issue being discussed. Your panic is patent ...

Bernie Masters,

You will need to read history as to why Jews have been vilified. In Australia, prejudice appears to emerge from two types of people:

1) Raised in an anti-Semitic environment and too brain-dead to evaluate their indoctrination. But find it fun to collectively bay after a certain group, like dogs chasing a car.

2) People who have been disempowered, often victims themselves; lacked courage, perhaps opportunity, to confront the issue and grow. They select a vulnerable victim upon whom to vent their hatred, resentment, and anger. Psychologists refer to this as “displacement” or “scapegoating”. Most often their victim is the Jewish people and/or Israel ... This is very safe ...

Danielle,

Earlier in this thread you claimed I was using "false and malicious" material that is "proven" as such. I asked you, on a factual basis, to prove it. You could not.

Now you are claiming that I am misrepresenting myself, that I have a "complete lack of understanding of the issue being discussed" and apparently my "panic is patent".

I ask you the same again. On a factual basis, prove it.

Bernie,

Danielle has actually given some correct reasons in her response to you, however it goes a little deeper than she suggests (indeed, she is describing symptoms, not causes).

Two methods that people have been differentiated in history against their common humanity is by religious exclusiveness and racial exclusiveness (both real and imaginary).

European Jews copped a double whammy in the twentieth century as they were accused not only of being collectively responsible for the killing of Jesus (and therefore an enemy religion of the worst kind), but also because they were accused being of a different racial group and therefore of a different mentality - the latter was quite ridiculous, only a minority of Jews were and are Semites.

The racist von Hellwald summarises the two-fold discriminatory approach:

"The Jews are not merely a different religious community, but—and this is to us the most important factor—ethnically an altogether different race. The European feels instinctively that the Jew is a stranger who immigrated from Asia."

Now one thing that should be recognised about such ideologies as that they themselves are no special province for any human group. In a moral and universal sense, legal discrimination on the basis of religion, ethnicity, culture is abhorrent as is the application of collective punishment against such groups.

It does not matter where it is from or who engages in it or even for what purpose. Such discrimination is morally and ethically wrong and must be opposed by all people who actually care about their own rights and the reciprocal rights of others.

Thanks for the comments, Lev. I'm no scholar of Jewish history but it seems to me that the Jewish people at times and in some countries were also socially and culturally exclusive from their fellow citizens. As well, there may also have been a strong element of jealousy on the part of their neighbours as the Jews have a (to me, positive) reputation for being astute and successful business people, hence the unflattering portrayal of Jews in The Merchant of Venice (Shakespeare was writing popular fiction just as most movies from the US today aim at being popular so that they can attract a paying audience) and in the Magna Carta.
My memories of my father's Jewish friends while I was growing up are all positive, hence why I'm so curious as to why the Jews appear to have been treated so badly so often in history. Maybe Jews in a free society like Western Australia's don't feel as strong a need to be as exclusive from their fellow citizens in such a situation.

Keith wrote: "Their extremist nature is only supported because of the on going Israeli meddling, suppression, occupation and land stealing."

I agree that these groups are able to generate support by pointing to the occupation. However, I'm not so sure that the end of the occupation would necessarily lead to the end of popular support for these groups. Let me give you an example. Hezbollah in Southern Lebanon - formed as a resistance group committed to driving Israel out of Lebanon. Israel withdrew from Lebanon in 2000. Hezbollah continued to function and to harrass Israel with cross-border raids, rocket attacks etc. It continues to have popular support in the south.

"You seem to think only Israel shouldn't be subject to the dangers we all face today and you use it as an excuse to continue the occupation, suppression and land stealing."

Keith, if you think that we all face the same dangers as Israel then you're either grossly overestimating the threats we face, or grossly underestimating the dangers Israel faces. The fact is that Israel is surrounded by Arab states which have a historical animosity towards it. Iran in particular wants Israel to be wiped off the map. Israel faces far more serious threats than most countries in the world.

Re: my point about withdrawal in return for a guarantee of security. You seem to think withdrawal should come first, let Israel suffer attacks in the meantime, then hope that the Palestinian radicals will gradually lose suppoirt and peace will eventually come. No country in its right mind would agree to such a deal and rightly so. My point is that Israel (or any other state in a similar situation) has a right to demand security guarantees in exchange for returning land.

Keith, you seem unable to accept that "Israel was in any way showeing it was genuinely seeking peace with the Palestinians." What about Gaza? Isn't handing back territory a sign of genuinely seeking peace?