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The Forum > Article Comments > Immoral equivalence > Comments

Immoral equivalence : Comments

By Peter Wertheim, published 5/2/2008

When Israel fulfils its obligation to defend its citizens from attacks aimed at civilian population centres the anti-Israel hate squad cries foul.

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Many people still have a ‘thing’ about Jews. It’s a feeling that has been around for hundreds of years; it now extends to the country, Israel, even though many of that country’s inhabitants are not Jews.

The ravings of posters to OLO during Israel’s defence against terrorist rocket attacks from Lebanon is just one example of the anti-Israel/Jewish feelings. The Jews, it seems, are supposed to go under quietly, as they did at the hands of Nazi Germany. Even then, there was more hatred for the Nazis than there was sympathy or concern for Jews
Posted by Leigh, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 10:59:58 AM
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Peter is correct with the that the Nazi programmme was inspired because Jews were said to (falsely) of a different race. To be explicit, it was claimed that they were Semites, not Europeans and with all the religious overtones (sons of Noah) that was supposed to carry. It is a little odd then that some now say that the phrase "anti-semitism" only applies to Jews! Now that's certainly getting it around the wrong way.

One has no problems with Peter's condemnation of the theological hatred of Hamas. However the core problem, from the Palestinian perspective (and you must understand the perspective of your opponent if you genuinely want a just resolution), is "what are they doing here?", "why do they treat us like this?". Israel occupies, and continues to illegally occupy lands far is extension of the UN partition plan of 1947.

When looking at Peter's dot point claims:

1) "Their attacks have provoked the restrictions Israel has applied to Gaza, not the other way round". Actually, no. Israel invaded (1967) and occupied Gaza. Hamas was formed in 1987 as a result of this occupation and the failure by Israel to recognise a Palestinian state.

2) "The measures taken by Israel are in self-defence against repeated attacks against their civilians by an enemy openly bent on genocide". From the other perspective, the actions taken by the Palestinians are self-defense of their civilians against a foreign and aggressive militaristic power which seeks borders from the brook of the Nile to the Euphrates.

3) "The measures taken by Israel may seem harsh, but it is obscene to compare them to what the Nazis did." Except for the bombings of refugee camps, the use of human shields, and comparative statements between Dr. Hacohen with Julius Streicher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Maxwell-Hyslop)

It is only when such attitudes are expunged from Muslim and Jew alike that there is even the possibility of peace in the Levant.
Posted by Lev, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 11:01:40 AM
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Peter,
Your pro-Israeli anti-Palestinian hate rant is intellectually dishonest. It never once discuss's the cause of the rocket fire. Why not?

You indirectly and stupidly present a claim the rockets fired equate to an attempt at genocide.

The hate propaganda piece you've written ignores the illegal 40 year occupation, repression and land stealing by the Israeli's and significantly the fact Hamas did not come into existance until 1987 as an occupation resistance organisation. You seem to present an argument that suggests any sort of civillian action by the Palestinians is terrorism rather than the actions of civillians resisting and attempting to overthrow the Israeli illegal occupation and repression. In other theatres they'd usually be classed as heroes.

Instead of denouncing stupid parallel's with some of the actions of the Nazi's why don't you instead try to debunk the hate propaganda of the Israeli's.

Btw I have used once an analogy with the behaviour of the Nazi's. One you cannot debunk because it draws the relevant parallel.

It's this.

The Israeli government with it's aggression into Lebanon, it's disregard of international conventions in relation to occupations and it's attempt at the overthrow of a democratically elected Palestinian government is the worst display of wanton disregard for Western liberal principles by a government which insuinuates a claim to upholding those beliefs since Adolph Hitler and the Nazis.

Yep read it again and again. Get it into your head. It's the truth.

I don't support the idealogy of Hamas nor it's charter however I did support it's democratic right to govern, after it's election, according to it's election manifesto. That manifesto clearly stated it would not launch attacks on Israel as a government.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4606482.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4686844.stm
And for some balance
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1137605945945

Yep read those again and again too. It's the truth. Get it into your head. They cannot be debunked by dishonest intellectual argument nor pro-Israel anti-Palestinian hate propaganda of the sort you've engaged in here.
Posted by keith, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 11:47:59 AM
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Leigh

'...Israel, even though many of that country’s inhabitants are not Jews.'

In this regard by 2020 population projections suggest Israel will have more Palestinian Arabs than Jewish Israelis. Will you at that point agree with the election of a majority, for example, Hamas or Fatah government of Israel? You see that is what the Jewish Israelis fear most and it is what Hamas is waiting for. That lies at the heart of Israels immigration policies and restrictions.

'The Jews, it seems, are supposed to go under quietly,...'

Do you think the Israeli illegal occupation and theft of Palestinian lands should mean the Palestinians should stay under ... quietly?
Posted by keith, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 12:39:11 PM
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Keith and Lev - we know where people like you are coming from. It's only to be expected when people start off by branding Peter's views as hateful.

What you carefully avoided was the fact that Hamas was not formed to end Israel's occupation of territory but as Peter said its aim is to destroy Israel and kill Jews. That's exactly where the comparison between Warsaw Ghetto and Palestinian terror lies.

And I can only conclude that you blokes support those genocidal aims in Article 7 of the Hamas Charter.
Posted by AVG, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 1:57:46 PM
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It is a pity, AVG, that you came to a conclusion that Keith and I have explicitly rejected. Obviously expressing a total and absolute rejection of Hamas' article 7 is insufficient for your liking. Instead, we should evidently turn a blind eye to the numerous breaches of international law, abuse of human rights, theft of land, occupation etc by "the other side".

Your reasoning is rather like those who think we should turn a blind eye to the abuses of the invasion of Iraq, et al on the basis that to criticise such actions amounts to supporting Al Qaeda. G-d help those who engage in such "reasoning", for they will end up just like the monsters they claim to oppose.
Posted by Lev, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 2:59:43 PM
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