Candide, I can’t tell if you’re replying to me, but I didn’t say your enjoyment depends on God. See what I said about us all having senses.

Arjay, You say “God is not the question or the answer”. I think that’s only true if there’s no God. If God does exist, it’s possible but difficult to leave Him out of one’s thinking.

AJ Philips, You speak of secular society as though it’s simply an atheist idea and that atheism should take credit for whatever virtues it possesses. But, secular society includes theists and religions – and, for better and worse, their influence on the society. Further, there are many religious people who think theocracies (even run by their religions) are wrong, that religion should not exercise direct terrestrial power, and these religious people prefer and support the secular model.

Or, do you dream of a society which actively prohibits theism and religion, and all other forms of “irrationality”? And, are you saying here that such a society will be a moral improvement on the secular model that permits theism and religion and other forms of irrationality?

Pax,

I dream of a world where people have a level of self esteem that doesn't rely on 'superior beings'.

Of course banning religion doesn't work, any more than forcing non-believers into religion. Freedom of thought is paramount. And freedom of thought does not align itself with religious dogma.

I think that for a long time atheists simply tolerated religion, but since 9/11, we have witnessed the very worst that dogmatic belief can produce. This is why religion terrifies us and why there has been a plethora of books by the likes of Dawkins.

As for more moderate religious - how do you know which bits to cherry pick? For example, Arjay likes to cherry pick the bible for the bits on homosexuality to bolster his homophobia. Others like to cherry pick the bits to justify subjugation of women and others to deny female ordination.

If you believe you are religious, then how do you explain the terrible things that your deity has done to innocent people? If you don't believe those sections, then why believe any of it? Philosophy offers morality and ethics without the superstition and what must be complete suspension of disbelief when one considers the impact of science on our knowledge of life. Do any of you religious watch David Attenborough?

True maturity is a level of confidence to take responsibilities for one's actions and if there is a supreme deity - well I expect she is mature enough to understand.

So Christianity doesn't encourge violence? Here's some of the actions committed by Christians recently.

2005-06-18: Romanian nun crucified to death during 'exorcism'
2007-01-11: Preacher sets fire to 'sinning' members of congregation
2007-07-15: US Catholic church admits liability in over 500 cases of sex abuse
2007-11-30: Jehova's Witness boy dies of leukemia after refusing treatment for religious reasons
2007-12-08: US 'Godtalk' host arrested over child porn
2007-12-11: 'Deeply religious' Christian kills four at mega-church and missionary school
2007-12-14: Man stabbed to death by Christian in row over creationism.
2007-12-28: Rival priests fight with brooms and stones in Bethlehem.
2008-01-08: Texas man kills and cooks girlfriend on orders from God.
2008-01-26: 'Conservative Christian' accused of stalking and threats to rape.
2008-02-03: Catholic Church seeks to conceal details of child sex abuse cases in Milwaukee.

From http://atheistwiki.wikispaces.com/Outrage+scoreboard

Every individual and every organisation has one or two imperfections, Jon J

I'm sure if these people make a good confession then everything will be OK, and things can get back to normal.

Erm, what was normal again?

Can't theists just accept that atheists cannot believe in a supernatural deity?

I completely agree with Kelly, that atheism is a necessary starting point for the journey for the quest for meaning.

But, just as there are people who believe in a deity who either keep on examining the self and life or who just thoughtlessly do as they are told, so are there atheist who search for meaning or just go through life without much thought to this at all.

Gibo, stop listening so much to a recording of the bible, a politically motivated collection of stories compiled in the age of the Emperor Constatine. And especially, stop listening to other people's interpretations of said multiply translated stories.

If theists indeed believe the bible to be divinely inspired than trust that divinity to reveal its message directly to you, not via another flawed human being. Especially the book of Revelations

I cant give up listening to the Bible yvonne.
It gives me so much hope.
I used to read sci-fi and I knew much about Charlie Darwins dream, evolution, mainly through that false vision magazine National Geographic...millions of years is their lie...then I gave my life to Jesus one day in prayer and His Holy Spirit entered me and it all made sense.
The Word is the truth.
One doesnt need to join with the wonderers, wanderers and the day dreamers...the truth is in the Holy Bible.