Yvonne.

A few points...

'Do you really want to swap to how it was for women and now have women do that for men??'

I believe that is exactly what IS happening. It's called political correctness. Things like Agression, laricanism, stoicism are under attack. Men are told they must 'discuss their feelings' or they are 'emotional cripples'. Then if they do they are told to harden up and be a man. Agressive violent sport is being sanitised. Jokes between men about feminist jibes are the subject of this opinion piece. Little boys are more equipped to understand smacks than a verbal dressing down, but smacks are banned.

Then you have ads proporting that having a small penis is more shameful than endangering others behind the wheel of a car. That men are the sole perpetrators of domestic violence. Attempts to bring in laws that mean if a drunk male and a drunk female have sex, and the female decides it was a bad idea later on, the male is responsible for the female's level of intoxication and consent. We have women only gyms and male only clubs are illegal.

And there is no denying that the teaching profession is quite left of centre and has a massive over-proportion of women. Also a lot of young men are brought up by single mothers, and women instigate most divorces, I believe because financial and costodially they have a lot less to lose.

A lot of these problems are either side effects of the feminist movement, or would not be acceptable if the shoe was on the other foot.

'Females cannot fulfill that role'.

Good on you. Such a comment would not be accepted from a male. It would be labelled mysoginist and offensive to all single mothers.

Turnrightthenleft,
Keep searching, and one day you might find something by a feminist that says something positive about the male gender (other than men are “cavemen”, or “men only think of work, sex and sport”, or men are “a danger to women and their children”, or “man are rapists”, or ”men are elephants”, or men are “perpetrators of domestic violence”, or “boys are made of slime and snails”..

But don’t go asking Germaine Greer for hints on what is sexy and what isn’t.

You might have contact with boys at some time in the future.

Whitty,
Feminism has nothing to do with equality, or so called “oppression by the patriarchy”. No tanks have ever rumbled down these streets, and most women in Australia would not know oppression if they fell over it.

There are women’s magazines giving a $250,000 1st prize in handbags and shoes. Some oppression.

Feminism is constant vilification of the male gender, to make it easier to get more and more money out of men.

I know a fellow who earns over $2,000 a week, but out of that $500 goes in rent and living expenses, $500 goes in tax and $500 goes in child support. He has no say in how the tax and child support is spent, so out of what he earns, he has no say in how %50 is spent.

To be able to continue that system, the man has to be constantly vilified and treated as being a criminal. The man has to be made to feel guilty at all times, with nothing that the man does is right.

As a quick example: - According to Germaine Greer, if a male is below 18 then he is “gorgeous”, but above 18, he is no longer gorgeous, because he is a man.

That is feminism, and it is all done to extract as much money as possible from men without actually killing them. The system was actually explained to me once by a solicitor, (of all people).

This is primarily because feminism is a movement centered around women's liberation and not stroking men's egos. Of course this leaves their views towards men as a somewhat undefined
Desipis, Wednesday, 16 Jan 2008

As a woman it would be quite presumptuous to speak on the aspect of how masculinity is experienced. We don't know what it is feels like to be a bloke,

It is very debatable whether men are all well served by how society describes 'masculinity'. It might not only be women who grapple with some issues that confront them..

HRS, stop complaining that feminists are not speaking up for men and boys. Aren't you man enough to speak on behalf of men and boys? Do women have to do everything? Including speaking on your behalf? Let go off your mother's hand, stand on your own two feet.
yvonne, Thursday, 17 Jan 2008

Psychologist Toby Green, wrote about how;

"Marilyn complained that Andrew wasn't affectionate. Andrew responded that she was right. He often felt put down, judged and that Marilyn didn't like him, let alone love him.

Marilyn hotly retorted 'what was she supposed to do, make him feel like God's gift to women!? She refused to pander to his ego and give him a swollen head. She wanted to know if I was suggesting she tell him the things she liked about him, out loud !

Over fifty per cent of my practice is male. In trying to sort out who they're supposed to be in order to please women, they're lost, utterly adrift. And many of their female partners seem intent on tossing them ballast instead of life jackets. Even if the cost is they both sink.

Men teetering on the eggshell of political correctness are clueless about how to get it right, how to win. The truth is some women aren't prepared to let them. Women are better at putting people and relationships back together again. If it were Humpty, they'd assist. It's not. It's men." Toby.

Yvonne just perhaps you might be more a humanist than a feminist.

HRS - still using the tactic of demanding others do the work.

Maybe someday you'll find something to back your case instead. As I said, I'm done with that futile task.

Whitty:

You say HRS is a bit nutty, but my accusations toward him should also be shot at the feminists who do attack men unjustly.

Look, I couldn't agree more. In fact in another OLO article, a feminist made the claim that one in three Australian women would be the victims of domestic violence.

In this thread, I was the first off the bat saying I didn't believe it was that bad, and that was an exaggeration. It was only when HRS chimed in to try and say that Australia didn't have a major domestic violence problem, because he doesn't see women with black eyes, that I took umbrage.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=6633#99191

I wholeheartedly agree that the fringe feminists who believe men are evil should be criticised.

But I really don't think Audrey Apple fits that bill - I haven't seen evidence. The real proof, is the fact that she's stopped in, to personally say that she doesn't hate men.

But that doesn't matter to HRS. Because she's said comments that can be construed as being harsh on men (though I think the snips and snails comment takes quite a stretch, and interpreting it this way is actually childish) HRS has pigeonholed her as a man-hating feminist, and nothing can change his mind.

It doesn't matter what anybody says - all feminists are man haters. HRS has decided this and it's final, regardless of what's put forward.

This is the kicker which should end this debate: People who identify as feminists have popped their heads into these threads to say they don't hate men, and he's ignored it.

I don't see how any reasonable person can just ignore that.

But because he has created a perception where in order to be a feminist, you have to hate men, he won't listen. It's hypocrisy. He's doing exactly what he hates so much about the fringe feminists.

Turnightthenleft
So out comes the excuse that Audrey Apple is some type of fringe feminist.

Maybe Audrey Apple could state whether or not she is a “fringe feminist”, or a normal feminist.

If Audrey Apple did like males she could take the banner “Boys are made of slime and snails” off her website, but she hasn’t done that yet.

If Audrey Apple was concerned about” dignity”, then she could also clean up the profanity on her website, but she hasn’t done that yet.

Keep searching.

The sock puppet formerly known as Timkins: "Keep searching"

While others may be silly enough to play Timmy's little game, I think it's both pointless and boring. I propose one for him to fill in some of his miserable time: please provide an example of a comment where Timkins or his sock puppet HRS has said something positive about the female gender.

Have fun searching :)