Danielle,

It is indeed true that I am a doctoral candidate in Social Theory and author of some forty papers, professional presentations and other such material. I also hold an honours degree in Politics, Philosophy and Sociology. I shall let my peers decide whether I engage in sufficient critical thinking and checking of secondary sources.

- Your complaints about Chris McGreal are unsubstantiated. You write-off the messenger without even attempting to address the message. The first two links were complaints about him being biased *against* the rise of anti-Jewish feelings in Europe, which has nothing to do with his comments concerning Israeli land discrimination. The third link does not address the incredible influence the JNF has over the ILA or the common practise of declaring Palestinian land as "non-residential" and thus suitable for redevelopment. Even in its pathetic mealy way the article admits that land ownership in Israel is discriminatory. The example of Hebron is the policy in practise. I shall let you read in your own time how Israel confiscated lands from the Palestinians in the past through the Absentees Property Law,. Emergency Regulations (Requisition of Property) Law and how, by the mid-1950s, 1/3 of Israel's Jewish population has taken over houses and lands from Palestinian refugees.

- You complain that the site I reference is "Palestinian propaganda". Again, this is a case of writing off the messenger without consideration of the message. The article itself is from Ha'aretz and concerns itself with the difference between "citizenship" and "nationality" in Israel. You do not address these facts.

- Finally, you also attempt to make a claim of fact: "Their [Israel's] press/media ranks among #1 in the world for freedom of speech (Freedom House)". For someone who is allegedly so concerned with checking sources and so forth, it must be pointed out that you have been hoisted on your own petard. Israel currently ranks 59th in press freedom according to Freedom House, holding equal position with Greece, Fiji and Ghana.

http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=271&year=2006,
http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=204&year=2005,
http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=203&year=2004,
http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=197&year=2003

Dear Ghada,

it is indeed heart-wrenching to read the accounts of atrocities commited in Gaza, Israel and the West Bank. Palestian people are suffering and it is our collective shame that this has gone on so long unresolved.

But I wonder if taking an anti-Israeli stance on the issue is actually doing the Palestinian people any good. No doubt Israelis like people everywhere long for peace and security and are not some blood-thirsty nation intent on inflicting maximum damage on the Palestinians. While the army may be guilty of crimes and pushing for those responsible to be made accountable is just, demonising Israel or engaging in a theoretical polemic on whether or not it deserves to exist, is, I think, totally counterproductive for your cause.

If a solution is to be found, polarising speech and attitudes have to be left behind by both sides. How can we persist in our biases and beat our chests proudly and indignantly complaining about someone's else wrongs, while our own conscience is far from clean? Surely before peace, there must be forgiveness, there must be a humble acceptance of our own grave faults, there must be wisdom. We cannot bring peace while spreading words that encourage division and ultimately hatred. Why don't we start right now?

Danielle,

I supported the Iraqi war. Er yes … so what is the relevance in a discussion on whether Israel as an aggressive non Liberal Democracy deserves the support of freedom loving Western Liberal Democracies?

‘You state:“Locke and Rousseau ... some obscure 18th century English elitist twit and long irrelevant other” ...’
No, that is only part of what I stated and by omitting any explanatory comment you are deliberately misrepresenting my words and views.

Israel may accept some criticism but it hasn’t acted to alter many of the things for which it is most harshly criticised.

Israel isn’t under any sort of siege; it is occupying and stealing it’s neighbours lands. That’s quite a jump you make. But I do agree Israel is besieged by its own leaders militarist mindsets. Its controlling politicians are all former soldiers. They were all indoctrinated by the military during their forced conscription.

So you support a two state solution. Great news, do you realise you are at odds with the actions of your government. But honestly do you support such set at ’67 borders?

I fail to see any relevance to the current discussion of any the posts you referenced.

And the reference to batman and wonder boy robin is too bloody obscure to cause anyone any offence. Like to try again?

I do recall you offering a piece of advice … ‘don’t shoot the messenger’…wasn’t it? Nice to see you ignore your own counsel…it’s the most appropriate response to almost all your positions…and shall be my response to your posts in future.

Re: Chris McGreal’s report

Read:

Benjamin Pogrund’s “Apartheid? Israel is a democracy in which Arabs vote”
http://www.mideastweb.org/israel_apartheid.htm

McGreal ignores the following signed by several prominent South African anti-Apartheid activists, including Bob Hepple and Joel Joffe:

“we reject this parallel [between Israel and apartheid]. Israel may adopt policies with which we disagree, but the institutions of social democratic Israel do not bear comparison with the authoritarian and racist structures of apartheid South Africa. To equate this with Israel distorts the historical record.”

McGreal claimed: “influential Likud MP Uzi Cohen” supported expelling Palestinians from Israel. BUT there has never been a Knesset member named Uzi Cohen.
http://www.knesset.gov.il/mk/eng/mkDetails_eng.asp?letter=C&view=0

Allegations about Sharon are lifted from an article in Al-Ahram by Khaled Amayreh, Hamas supporter/“journalist” in Hebron.
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2004/672/re1.htm

Report by Human Rights Lawyer Justus Reid Weiner “Illegal Construction in Jerusalem”
http://www.jcpa.org/jlmbldg.htm

... and on it goes ...

Read

Committee for Accuracy in Middle Eastern Reporting in America
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=6&x_article=1083
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=6&x_article=1082
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=6&x_article=1080
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=6&x_article=706
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=6&x_article=707

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_McGreal

So this Jew, Arab, Georgian and Samaritan go to court
http://www.pcdc.edu.ps/no_israeli_nationality.htm
source:
Groups Petitions Court for Israeli Nationality (2003-12-29) - similarly affects Jewish groups
http://middleeastinfo.org/article3804.html

Freedom of the Press in Israel
http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=251&year=2006

Israel IPolitical Rights and Civil Liberties
http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=22&country=7199&year=2007

Abstracts:

Israel is an electoral democracy. Although no formal constitution, a series of basic laws have the force of constitutional principles. All citizens (... including Arab) are extended full political rights.

Press freedom is respected, and enjoys a vibrant and independent media landscape. All Israeli newspapers are privately owned and freely criticize government policy.

An independent judiciary and an active civil society protect the free media.

cont...

In 2004, the Supreme Court denied a government appeal aimed at upholding a ban on granting press credentials to Palestinians on security grounds.

While basic laws and Declaration of Independence designate Israel as a “Jewish and democratic state,” freedom of religion is respected. Christian, Muslim, and Baha’i communities have jurisdiction over their own members in matters of marriage, burial, and divorce.

Matriculation is universally available, with identical education for Jews and Arabs (in Arabic). Israel’s universities are open to all based on merit. Universities have always been centers for dissent and criticism of the government.

Freedoms of assembly and association are respected ... an active civil society, including NGO’s ... demonstrations are widely permitted.

Workers may join unions of their choice; have the right to strike and bargain collectively.

Every state-run company must have at least one Arab Israeli on its board of directors.

12 members of the Knesset are Arab Israeli, most representing majority-Arab political parties. Arab population votes heavily for Arab-oriented parties, the left-leaning and centrist Zionist parties also have strong support from the Arab community.

Arab members of the Knesset occasionally voice support for anti-Israel factions in Palestinian territories and abroad, including Hamas and Hezbollah. This is sometimes the subject of investigation by the attorney general, but rarely have been grounds for sanction.

The corruption watchdog, the Movement for Quality Government (also offering protection for whistleblowers),was recently recognized by Transparency International with an Integrity Award.

The state protects personal autonomy.

The Law of Citizenship, passed in 2003, bars citizenship to Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza who marry Arab Israelis, but is not retroactive. (A security measure, the law is reviewed regularly.)

All Israeli citizens (Jew, Muslim, Christian ...) enjoy full political rights, equal rights under the law, the vote, can stand for election to the Knesset, hold senior positions, have an Israeli passport .. effectively Israeli “nationality”.

Australian naturalization requires swearing of allegiance to the queen and Australia.

Like every country, Israel is not a utopia, there are social inequalities - (what countries don't have them) - but these are not due to Israeli policy

Whilst there are obviously differences between South Africa and the current status of Israel, the fundamental aspects are the same. Both are colonialist projects. Both are based on programmes of exclusion and separation. Both have engaged in territorial segregation and restrictions on freedom of movement, enforced by ID cards and based on religious-ethnic criteria. Both effectively have Bantustans, with military and economic control ultimately in the hands of the colonial power.

Pogrund's article - and Hepple and Joffe's comments - essentially says that "Israel is not identical to South Africa", but we already knew that. On the other side, prominent anti-apartheid campaigners, such as Bishop Desmond Tutu and former US President Jimmy Carter recognise the system as such as does John Dugard, a South African professor of international law and a Judge on the International Court of Justice. Even members of the Israeli Knesset:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1145961344738&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

The fact that Chris McGreal's report attracted opposition doesn't make it wrong. The fact he used the name Uzi Cohen, rather than Uzi Landau is relatively trivial in the scheme of things.

What is remarkable throughout this discussion is (a) you seem utterly incapable of admitting any errors and (b) you don't offer any feasible solutions to current situation. Perhaps instead of defending the current failed system you could instead direct your energies to improving it; "a light unto the nations". Make it better; a place where all can live and where people are treated according to the individual character; not with collective punishment or collective advantage or by their religion or ethnicity.