Residential land: ILA sometimes offers Israeli Arabs more favorable terms than it does to Israeli Jews. ILA charged the equivalent of $24,000 for a capital lease on a quarter of an acre near Beersheva -Bedouin families in the nearby Rahat paid only $150 for the same amount of land.

Private lands. There are no restrictions on the purchase of private land in Israel. Israeli Arabs - even non-citizens, (including Arab foreigners) - may freely purchase it. The Israeli authorities have placed no obstacles in the way of such purchases.

The Palestinian Authority is encouraging purchases of land in Israeli territory by wealthy Palestinians. Palestinian figures tied to the real estate business, and living mainly in London, look to purchase homes and lands in Jerusalem through agents and lawyers who live mainly in Ramallah.

Residency in Israel:

Under Right of Return, Jews can gain residency in Israel. This is similar to the “Grandparent Stamp” available to Australians who had a grandparent born in Britain - including Eire (Ireland). A “Grandparent Stamp” gives the holder automatic residency status in Britain.

This law (in its entirety) makes no distinction between Jews or Arabs, etc.
Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law (Temporary Order), 5763 - 2003  

Section 2, article 7:

7.  The spouse of a person who is an Israeli citizen or has applied for Israel citizenship and meets or is exempt from the requirements of Section 5(a) may obtain Israel citizenship by naturalization even if he or she does not meet the requirements of Section 5(a).”

“ .. permanent residence in Israel are currently given for purposes of family unification, to residents of the region in cases where their spouses are permanent residents of Israel.”..

“It should be mentioned that granting of citizenship pursuant to the Citizenship Law, or giving a permit for permanent residency in Israel pursuant to the Entry into Israel Law, to a foreign resident within the context of family unification is a gradual process.”

OBVIOUSLY with the risk of terrorism, Israel has to be ultra-careful. Australia would do the same.

Danielle,

1) Disputed Territory.

Israel has never recognised Palestinian statehood; all neighbouring nations and the Palestinians recognise Israel. Where is this magical Palestinian state going to appear? The PA lands are discontiguous; a two-state solution is now impractical.

2) Current Activity

Also a response to David's comment. The current situation is only a result of being denied statehood for the past six decades. Hamas and Hezbollah are a direct result of the dispossession of Palestinian lands and the twenty year occupation of Lebanon.

In a secular, democratic state that doesn't engage in apartheid or invade its neighbours, these organisations would disappear.

3) Rights to Land and Colonists

As you have correctly noted, some 90% of the land in Israel is under control of the ILA and the JNF. The JNF also controls half the ILA board and puts its interests first. It is illegal for the JNF to lease land to non-Jews.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1703245,00.html

Remember Hebron?

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/861228.html

So it is clear, by your own admission, that there is not the same rights to land. You lose that point, too.

4) Law of Entry

You claim that Jews and non-Jews have the same rights under the law of entry. Yet a non-Jew born in Palestine and whose family has lived there for their ten generations has less rights under the law of entry than a Jew in Ripponlea whose family for ten generations has never seen the place.

I am rather disturbed however that you've attempted to cover up the distinction between 'citizen' and 'nationality' in Israel and the different rights that are accorded on the basis of nationality.

So this Jew, Arab, Georgian and Samaritan go to court...
http://www.pcdc.edu.ps/no_israeli_nationality.htm

In any case you lose that point as well.

5) Marriage Law

Congratulations on confirming my statement that "They do not even have the same marriage laws".

That one was pretty easy, but it makes it three to nil, and this game is over.

‘Namier held very right-wing views, and has been called the most reactionary British historian of his generation.’
‘…and made little secret of his belief that the best form of government was that of a grubby self-interested elite.’

From wikipedia.
My starting point the Greek historians and philosophers and later liberals, JS Mill and the founders fathers of the US. I can’t see the Israeli population lining up behind Locke and Rousseau would be on the other side of that wall…

I’d prefer my reading rather than basing my entire understanding of Liberal Democracy on the opinions of some obscure 18th century English elitist twit and long irrelevant others.

I am in the process of evaluating the one state solution. You still haven’t given me any information. I can see you are against it, but not why.

‘Settlements are built on less than 3 percent of the area of the West Bank. However, due to the extensive network of settler roads and restrictions on Palestinians accessing their own land, Israeli settlements dominate more than 40 percent of the West Bank.

The route of Israel’s Wall has been designed to annex 56 settlements to Israel, incorporating 76 percent of the settler population currently living in the West Bank (including settlements in East Jerusalem).’

http://www.palestinemonitor.org/spip/spip.php?article7

Only 7% … rubbish… read this … and it shows the facts you are ignoring.

But why should the Palestinians have to negotiate for their own land anyway. That implies they’ll have no option but to give some of it up. And that is patently morally wrong.

Paul is confusing and you haven’t read my posts. I won’t get into a semantic argument over the position of the dispossessed owners of Palestine. That’s just inflammatory.

Danielle Australia is a Liberal Democracy. We wouldn’t sink to the levels of behaviour exhibited by Israel. There would be uproar if we did and the Government behaving in such a manner would be chucked out. That can’t happen in Israel because it is a Military Parliamentary System where realistically any possible Government alternatives are dominated by former soldiers and their attitudes.

No I am not deliberately obfuscating the issue. But clearly your obvious skewed understanding and lack of accurate phraseology is hindering an intelligent discussion of the rights and responsibilities of Liberal Democrats within their system.

The word attainted is interesting and it refers to the conviction for attainder…which is of course ‘the legal consequence of judgment of death or outlawry for treason or felony, involving the loss of all civil rights.’
In Liberal Democracies many things are considered treasonable but treason has to be proven in the courts before any sanctions are applied. Do you not understand that?

Let me explain this I will write slowly. I don’t expect countries that don’t profess to be liberal democracies to aspire to the standards accepted by liberal democracies. Are you having so great a difficulty understanding the reasoning behind that point? So… er … I’ve never claimed I should judge non liberal regimes and liberal democracies equally. To do so would only be a farce. And just for the public record I abhor any state that abrogates any human rights anywhere.

Show me where in this thread I asked. “Why do you twist things?”
(That was in response to the lies about the Camp David offer by Ehud Barak…in another thread.)

But please do address these questions:

1. ‘Israel and you should also be able to accept criticism and re-assess its actions towards its neighbours. That's what Liberal Democrats accept and expect. Why can't Israel measure up? Why don't you expect Israel to measure up?’

2. ‘If you have any opinion on the single state option or any other option (Other than a continuation of the current fiasco) I would appreciate hearing it’.

3. ‘If you don't support opposition to the occupation...er...does that mean you support the occupation and the activities associated with it?’

So now tell me is your only objection to a one state solution the existence of Hamas and their adherence to their charter?

Lev,

You state you are a doctoral student ...

You reveal no rigour in research, nor ability in critical thinking; ... indeed, seem to have grave problems with comprehension and understanding facts....

You do not check your “evidence,” resources, nor authors; validate them.

You obviously do not research, compare, date and validate secondary sources... Forget about primary material ...

No evidence of post-grad. ability here ... not even under-grad.

Re your reference: http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1703245,00.html

The report was written by Chris McGreal . This says it all.

Chris McGreal excludes, misrepresents, and fabricates the views of those whose message is not consonant with his polemic ... this includes anti-apartheid activists.

Arab Media Watch - a pro-Arab site - also slams McGreal for his fabrications and distortions:

COMPLAIN TO CHRIS MCGREAL & THE GUARDIAN
http://www.arabmediawatch.com/amw/Articles/ActionAlerts/tabid/74/newsid397/36/COMPLAIN-TO-CHRIS-MCGREAL--THE-GUARDIAN/Default.aspx

COMPLAIN TO THE GUARDIAN
http://www.arabmediawatch.com/amw/Articles/ActionAlerts/tabid/74/newsid397/58/Default.aspx

RE-READ: the VERY WELL REFERENCED “Can Arabs by Land in Israel?”
http://www.meforum.org/article/370

read
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=6282#92733

The site you provide is for Palestinian propoganda
http://www.pcdc.edu.ps/
Palestinian Curriculum Develpment Center

Keith

You completely misunderstood Namier - no surprises there ... check wikipedia for both “Liberal Democracy” and “Democracy” - bite size pieces to be sure, but should be adequate for you .. .

Observation: you support the Iraq war ...

You state: “Locke and Rousseau ... some obscure 18th century English elitist twit and long irrelevant other” ...

Israel, indeed, accepts criticism, not only from others, but also from within. Their press/media ranks among #1 in the world for freedom of speech (Freedom House)

Because Israel is constantly under siege, its politicians don’t have the luxury of time, like ours, to navel gaze and ponder. Emergency, necessarily leads to hastiness.

You know I believe in a two-state solution - NOW. You agreed.

However,

Nonie Darwish, Al-Arabiya TV (March 23, 2007)

“We should begin to view the Palestinian Arab cause in a different manner. For 58 yeas we have been fighting Israel... Enough, we must resolve this problem, because it hinders the progess of the Arab peoples ... we must be just and grant them security. There are five million of them, and we are 1.2 [billion] Muslims. What are we afraid of - five million Jews? We must welcome them so they can live in our midst ... we must stop the terrorism in Israel, and we must not encourage Hamas to say it wants to annihilate Israel. Ahmadinejad is not even an Arab - what does he have to do with Israel?”

Rashid Khalidi, director of the Middle East Institute stated:

“It is time that Palestinian leaders looked at their own weaknesses instead of blaming everything on Zionism, imperialism, and other outside forces.”

Raji Sourani, director of the Palestinian Center for Human Rights in Gaza, said:

“ ... officials with the mind-set of a banana republic are causing tremendous damage to the Palestinian cause.”

Territory
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=6282#92733

I am not going to repeat my posts ad nauseum. Read Paul’s hereunder; also on this site.
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=6282#92733
also
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=6426#96094

We now have Batman and “boy wonder” Robbin ...

Lev,

You seem to treat the issue of the Palestinians and Israel as a game. It is not. Perhaps you believe in Hamas’ program of teaching kindergarten children the joys of being suicide bombers and martyrs for Allah. This is unspeakably obscene.

I will answer your other statements, albeit dishonest, late