How about teaching restraint, resolving issues non-violently, being courageous, learning how to love not hate, learn to rid yourself of fear and anger, learning priciples and that being a man means being courageous and caring not aggressive and controlling.?

And not trying to injure other people?

Thanks Pedant - appreciate your POV, however I have done both Tae Kwon Do and straight out kick boxing. Must admit I'm not so good with a punch but deadly with a kick.

Anyway Atman has raised the point I was trying to get to with the posting of my 5 tenents.

I have no doubt that boxing may well be the saving of some of our children - but different strokes OK?

The foundation of eastern martial art is in self-control and striving towards peaceful resolution, force is used only in defence and only as a last resort. These are good values to be teaching our children, especially in today's violent times when might is considered 'right'.

BTW - my fave male athlete continues to be Mohamed Ali.

Peace brothers.

Atman said (unfortunately he neglected to give his source, Jesus Christ)

<<How about teaching restraint, resolving issues non-violently, >>

There are two levels on which society works.

1/ The personal.
2/ The State.

On the personal level, Christs teaching/Advice (I cannot call it Atmans) is ground breaking, and most difficult to achieve, going totally against our natural inclination for revenge and defense of our rights.

I'm thinking that in terms of other scriptural references such as:

"As far as it depends on you, live peacefully with all men" (Romans 12:18)

...there comes a point where the individual role needs to be taken over by the State.

Christs teaching on 'Enemies' is in my opinion on the 'Individual' level. We are to show Gods universal love in our lives, and by our behavior, attract mankind to His kingdom and rule in our lives.

The State has the responsibility to protect the freedoms of the Individual and maintain law and order. In a democracy, it is the responsibility of the individuals to elect just such a government.

This might include some measures which are unpalatable to those who would seek a different kind of government such as an Islamic or Socialist State.

When I read Christs teaching on 'If your enemy forces you to go one mile, go with him two' I find it easier to relate it to a totalitarian state like that of Rome, where a Soldier was legally allowed to compel a Jew to carry his Armor for one mile,than to some thugs in the street. In the case of the Soldier, do go the 2nd mile was a symbol of personal liberty in Christ and of Gods love for the Soldier.

I'd like to think that in our efforts to defend ourselves, we limit what we do to 'reasonable restraint' rather than vindictive revenge
as per Scouts post.

Christs teaching recognizes that violence is a terrible distortion of Gods image in us, and that to restrain gives more opportunity for the perpetrator to re-capture that image.

BD - I thought you believed that this thread should be "men only" and to judge from your first post to this thread that you believed a good stoush as the way to settle differences. Thanks to your comments I received some abuse from our ...er... more 'neanderthal' posters.

And now you're quoting the bible - does this mean you have turned the other cheek?

Why can't you discover self-restraint without reference to Christ?

Commonsense tells us that peaceful settlement is a lot more advantageous than beating the pulp out of one another.

So did you teach your children how to defend themselves or how to attack?

I teach both my nephew and my niece some basic self defense moves - its been great to watch their confidence soar and their fitness improve.

And here is a problem:

This has been edited, but the original can be found at:

http://smh.com.au/news/national/rioters-in-jail-after-pressure-from-police/2005/11/13/1131816809109.html

Rioters in jail after pressure from police
By Andrew Clennell
November 14, 2005

A magistrate has sentenced two men to a years' jail for their part in the Macquarie Fields riots after howls of protest forced a rethink on his decision to order a "conference" with police.

Luke Standing, 20, and Daniel Dunn, 21, are now appealing against the severity of their punishment, but police have applauded the jail terms.

According to a police summary tendered to the court, Standing had thrown about 50 rocks at police during the riot on the evening of Saturday, February 26.

Dunn, a demolition worker, had verbally threatened police and flung a metal paling at them.

Mr Shepherd acknowledged the men's "contrition" when he sentenced them but said jail was appropriate.

He said Standing had lost his place in the Commonwealth Games boxing team as a result of his offence, but a message had to be sent to the community that such behaviour would not be tolerated.

Mr Scipione has welcomed the sentences. "I'd like to thank the magistrate," he said. "It's a fair outcome, and I'm very grateful that common sense has prevailed. The magistrate has been very balanced in terms of the final decision. It shows support for the police … There needs to be a deterrent effect."

Mr Debus refused to comment. A spokesman said: "We have no comment to make about it. It's a court matter."

The fate of five others who were diverted to conferencing for their role in the riots is not known but Mr Debus has said most are in full-time employment and one is completing the Higher School Certificate.

=+=+=+=+

So here we have a young man who has demonstrated all the ability and discipline through boxing to make it to the Commonwealth Games Team, and he still takes part in a riot against authority.

Any comments?

Scout it's terrible if posters are abusing you because you are female. In my opinion you're not wrong because you're a female, you're wrong because you're wrong. I've done judo, tae-kwon do, boxing and kickboxing. Different strokes are great. Martial arts are great. The tenets you post are an excellent guide. Martial arts have much to teach about discipline. However, martial arts do NOT have MORE to teach about discipline than boxing. The key word there is "more" and that is where you are, in my opinion, WRONG. But peace all around, definitely, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

BOAZ_David I don't see where Scout's posts suggest violence be used for vindictive revenge. That's a huge call, and sounds like you're being a bit vindictive yourself. All Scout said was that if she had studied Tae-kwon-do earlier she would perhaps have had more confidence and would not have married an abusive man. It's like your post that the thread should be men only. Some men like the idea that they can have men-only things.... historically like voting or wearing trousers to work and, more recently, boxing or Online Opinion forum posting threads. However the Online-Opinion forum isn't a 'men-only' space and neither is the boxing ring. There are 'men-only' spaces, and masculinity is important, as is teaching boys pride in themselves and their achievements (nod to Realist and Father Dave here) and you should be encouraging that rather than trying to take a public space and make it men only.

I think it's important to teach both defence and attack and I think a combination would seem logical. There is also a big difference of course between learning self-defence techniques in case you get attacked in the street (Father Dave's "run away" suggestion is probably the best, as long as you're running to a safer place) and what you will need for a bout in the ring. So whether you are teaching defence, or attack, or both, would depend on the situation (for you Scout, tae-kwon-do does teach how to attack, otherwise how could it be an Olympic sport?).