Boxing training should possibly be the included in School curriculums. This would provide adolescent males with respectr for authority (sadly lacking), get them off the couch or computer games, instill discipline, and also invariably teach them basic lessons about life - ie. do the wrong thing there are consequences.

All of these salient points are sadly missing from the Australian adolescent male on the whole. Personally I blame it upon the new version of the nuclear family (mum and kids). The role of coaching adolescent males through the startling, untoward effects (caused by surging testoserone) of puberty, has traditionally been the father / uncles / etc. I do not blame single mothers for their difficulties in doing this, however lacking the equipment, that causes particularly young males to recourse to violence means that they are ill-equipped to understand the problem.

Therefore people get hurt, and without male role models, they invariably seek redress for trifling insults / injuries, most of which were in fact deserved (in the past this was explained as 'taking it on the chin / or being a man, and deserved hidings were forgiven). Failure to understand this leads to an increase in violence and thuggery, the young males of today think that they can act however they please, and suffer no repercussions - historically this is unwise.

Martial arts such as Tae Kwon Do, Karate have more to teach about disclipine than the rather more basic boxing. Also these arts should be available to both boys and girls for the same reasons as Dave Smith argues.

I started late in life learning Tae Kwon Do - wish I'd had the opportunity to learn as a young child - perhaps I wouldn't have wound up married to an abusive man if I'd had a black belt back then. I'm sure I would've had more self-confidence as well.

I'm all for the defensive arts to be taught - to everyone.

I do not agree regarding martial arts.

I have done both, boxing early, martial arts later and you get no encouragement or themos release form standing in a line doing glorified aerobics. Some are different of course and their are different forms/learning structures with each, but generally many of the defensive arts are like this. Muay Thai is a different kettle of fish, but it is brutal rather than noble in my opinion, and turns vulnerable youths into capable killers, with instucutors generally having a different, more aggressive mindset to boxing trainers.

Nothing gets rid of themos like half an hour of solid bag work. In my experience by the end of the martial arts classes i did, all i saw was 6 year old kids very excited to try their new capabilities out, as they were underdone on the sparring side and did not feel the physical fatique at the end of the night due to this. the schoolyard or siblings are usually who cops the brunt.

For self defence great. For women and those who do not have the need to release aggression, great.

No kid is agressive when they are completely exhausted, and there is no substitution for the sweet science in this regard.

Here is an article - a brilliant article - written by a man, a good man, about boys. About boys in general and about some boys in his care and in trouble too. It should be respected as just that, I believe.

But, no, we have Scout chirping in about "these arts should be available to both boys and girls for the same reasons as Dave Smith argues."

Well, with all due respect Scout, and I do really mean that, this article is not about girls getting in touch with their themos, even if they do have one, it's about, let me say that again, loudly, IT'S ABOUT, boys.

That's one of the biggest problems with masculinity today - women pushing, yes pushing, themselves and their noses into masculine places and affairs where they aren't welcome and then they turn all debate and conversion into talk about themselves. Give us a break!

This is the ugly, narcissistic face of feminism and the "me-too-ism" of many modern women. It's selfish, it's adolescent, it's rude and it's what is getting women and feminism a very bad name.

For Heaven's sake Scout, there's enough proactive womenism in the world today to help girls, but boys have been neglected and are seriously suffering. The world is feeling the disastrous effects of this right now in Paris and other places.

But, you may not care about boys and their future manhood, but the good Father Dave here does. Surely you can have enough respect and grace to sit back and let the discussion for once, revolve around boys, men and masculinity.

If you want girls to get in touch with their masculinity, great. There's nothing wrong with that, I guess, it's a free country, but please back out and give us men a bit of space to be ourselves with our boys and our masculinity just for once.

And to Pedant, I do like your point - but I'm going to have to wait until later to answer you, so I don't blow out my 350 words here.

BOAZ_David you maintain that men are the protectors of women in the natural world and certainly in your "mugging" scenario the victim is female and the protector is male, but the mugger (aggressor) is also male. Does this mean that men are the aggressors of women in the natural world also? Does it mean that women are the victims of men in the natural world? Rhetorical questions, to which I say the answer is "no". If you are about to become the victim of a violent mugging, you should welcome protection from a protector (male or female). You won't say to a female protector, "Sorry, you're not a natural protector so don't protect me thanks, I'd rather let this mugger smash me in the face"! I've been rescued from male and female aggressors by male and female protectors and I've also as a protector rescued male and female victims from male and female aggressors. I don't believe that there is a natural 'protector' sex, same as I don't believe there is a natural 'aggressor' sex or a natural 'victim' sex. Persons (and animals) of both sexes play out these roles in the natural world. Mahatma Duck has it better when he says, "There is nothing incompatible with manliness and feminism".

Father Dave I think you're right regarding the dangers of boxing as compared to other sports (I'm sure I've seen it somewhere that there are more deaths in fishing than boxing). Plus the tremendous physical exercise involved in boxing keeps people fit and healthy, which helps prevent heart disease etc. Realist is right when he says half an hour of bag work is completely exhausting! I'd still be interested in a response to my comments about King David and Jesus Christ given your assertion that men were made to fight physically and it's part of the fabric of the Bible.

Hi guys. I want to jump in to comment on the Martial Arts issue, as someone brought up Taekwondo as a good alternative to boxing.

I started in the Martial Arts and have two black belts in Hapkido (the sister art of Taekwondo) and eight black belts in all. I am also president of a national Martial Arts organisation.

I have moved away from teaching traditional Martial Arts to young men for two reasons - firstly because I've found it to be too physically dangerous, and secondly because I think that most martial arts introduce a dangerous mentality in students.

The Martial Arts I mean are those that train youngsters to punch the air, punch bags and break wood, but never let them punch anybody else. These arts are generally associated with a macho belief that, "If I had followed through with that shot I would have killed you" or some rubbish like that.

The real problem with this is not just that it breeds arrogance and false confidence, but that it leaves young men hungering for a street fight!

Imagine teaching swimming by having someone stand at the side of the pool and wave their arms around in circles, while telling them, "You're a great swimmer. Just don't ever get in the water!"

This would be crazy, yet young guys train in 'self-defence' for years and years, practicising their techniques over and over again, while swearing that they'll never use them!

Is it any suprise then that martial artists have a terrible record of getting into street fights that they should run from, as well as getting themselves killed, as they've never actually experienced a real fight!

No! I throw the boys straight into a good rumble on the first night. Let them experience their humanity straight up, get the agro out of their systems in a controlled environment, and discover just how hard it is to hurt someone who knows how to move well and use their brain and not just their fists. Then we've got a basis of reality that we can build on.