Shocka, >>The *only* viewpoints we ever hear about are the feminist and the Christian.<<
Shocka, some women may indeed like to read the different viewpoints on abortion- perhaps these views can be a part of sex-ed at schools, but I doubt that any viewpoint would change the mind of a pregnant woman who is not willing to give birth.

Knowledge about something is always a good thing, but there is no viewpoint that should overrule the woman’s own viewpoint. Knowledge is just that; but the woman is faced with much more than just knowledge- feelings, relationship, situation, her anticipation of her future, help available to her, and a myriad of other things that have an effect on her life that may influence her decision. I can’t see why any viewpoint should be have priority over the woman’s own viewpoint. Women are capable of making their own decisions. If not, they seek help or information. If they make the wrong decision, they deal with it.

The most important thing when talking about abortion is that many abortions can be prevented by the prevention of getting pregnant and that we have to educate people how not to have unprotected sex.

I don’t see anything immoral about abortion: the percentage of natural abortions/miscarriages, as Yabby said, is fairly high; everybody accepts that naturally, miscarriages happen as a fact of life.
The only difference between a miscarriage and a medical abortion is the method and intention.
It makes no difference to the embryo/foetus what kind of method, natural or not, causes it to be aborted; the foetus doesn’t even have a developed human brain, no awareness of anything.

For me, the debate is over: the woman decides- she can ask advice if she needs to or look at different viewpoints like you mentioned, and she can and should discuss it with her partner also, but she makes the ultimate decision.

Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka, “albeit I can accept that in certain (not all) rape cases it might be medically justified to bring about an abortion!”

Good for you, I hold a far simpler view, that a woman, who I do not know, who is the victim of rape or simply of an unplanned or unexpected pregnancy deserves to suffer no judgment from me.

Re “nine of ten alleged-rapes it was concluded that they were not rapes at all but consensus sexual activities.”

The source of a pregnancy is irrelevant to the actions a sovereign individual is entitled to take when they find they are pregnant against their will or intention.

I was sorry to read your daughter so suffered rape. Neither of my girls have endured such inhuman treatment.

To the sweet and tender words she sent you, I too receive such responses. We often say to one another – how many times do I love you?

Answer - Once, from the moment you were born, permanently and unconditionally, forever.

It is an objective and unconditional respect for other people which allows me to understand that they are free to make the choices in their lives without reference to the choices I might make. This I attempted to demonstrate and instill in my daughters, the ability to make rational and reasoned choices rather than think they must come to me for permission to hold any view or make any decision.

The alternative view is that of the sad souls who can only feel self worth through living vicariously through or limiting the choices of others to force them "into step" with their ones own subjective values.

Shockadelic –any nurse who finds the process of abortion difficult to participate in has the choice of finding another job.

We do, after all, live in a "free market economy", not one regulated by your individual perceptions of value or merit.

We had this commotion about Jane, who lost her baby in a hospital toilet and she referred to it as a “foetus” but it was still alive in her hands.
Now, if it is a mere “foetus” many argue it has no right and can be destroyed by the woman as her right! On that basis why is then everyone up in arms about this?
While in this case it happened in a hospital, the same happens in toilets all over the world, where women suddenly loose the baby.
Perhaps, the fact that so much attention was given to it may underline that the child born to early in itself had a identity!
We cannot argue that on the one hand we need to address the issue of women having a miscarriage in a hospital (toilet) while on the other hand if the unborn child is much older we nevertheless can rip it piece by piece out of the womb, as it has no human status. I did happen to see it shown on a video that it is being done!
Those who are willing to deliberately deny an unborn child the right to be born are seeking to deny the very right their parent didn’t robbed them off.

The issue is not at all that I seek to dictate women what to do but that they seek to dictate me, as a member of society, that we have to accept this kind of barbaric conduct!

It is like the gay issue. They first argued that we should accept them their right to decide what they do in their own bedroom. Well, we got a lot further from this. Now they seek to dictate that they have the rights of heterosexual marriages!
They now demand that a child should accept their kind of living conditions by being placed in their care. This is a selfish conduct where their own personal deemed rights seems to be more important then the right of a child to have a father and a mother!

Look at how women demand businesses to-respect-their-pregnancy, then to abort!

Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka, “The issue is not at all that I seek to dictate women what to do but that they seek to dictate me, as a member of society, that we have to accept this kind of barbaric conduct!”

I hate to tell you this but all those women who choose abortion are dictating or attempting to dictate, nothing which will materially effect you, nothing at all.

Most do not know you or care about you.
Their action has no material or physical effect on you
It would seem you are trying to make them accountable for your personal emotional / philosophical discomfort.

If such claims were actionable or enforceable I would make similar claim against the socialists and lefties of the world who’s actions cause me similar emotional discomfort (or likely they against me).

Fortunately such claims of loss or damage are incontestable, I will just have to get over it, I suggest, you do the same.

As for “Look at how women demand businesses to-respect-their-pregnancy, then to abort!”

What a hopeless argument, you assume the ones who abort are the same as those who demand respect of their pregnancy.

Australia contains about 10 million females, they are all individuals, not the same and different ones will decide on different things. Same as I choose to wear a suit and tie for work whilst the fellow I presently work for chooses not to. Neither he nor I is right, we just “choose” different things, like some women choose to abort and others choose to proceed with pregnancy..

Col rouge read the nonsense you wrote:
QUOTE
Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka, “The issue is not at all that I seek to dictate women what to do but that they seek to dictate me, as a member of society, that we have to accept this kind of barbaric conduct!”

I hate to tell you this but all those women who choose abortion are dictating or attempting to dictate, nothing which will materially effect you, nothing at all.

Most do not know you or care about you.
END QUOTE

I did write “me, as a member of society” and NOT “Me, as an individual” as such your argument is rubbish!
As such it is not relevant if they know me or not!

What is relevant to me, as a member of society is that they somehow demand that laws are changed! Now, to me that does have relevant to me as a member of society, because regardless that I am not a female it is setting standards for society!

And, I all along expected you would more then likely act as you did as you appear to me to have a tunnel vision and by this read what you desire to be written and not read what is actually written.
QUOTE
It would seem you are trying to make them accountable for your personal emotional / philosophical discomfort.

If such claims were actionable or enforceable I would make similar claim against the socialists and lefties of the world who’s actions cause me similar emotional discomfort (or likely they against me).
END QUOTE

To me this also is nonsense of an argument! I do not belong to a political group or party! Hence, my views are based upon my own experiences!

Celivia: "The percentage of natural abortions/miscarriages is fairly high; everybody accepts that naturally, miscarriages happen as a fact of life."

We aren't discussing miscarriages. Nobody is *responsible* for those.

"The only difference between a miscarriage and a medical abortion is the *method and intention*."

Damn right!
And the only difference between sex and rape is the method and intention.
And the only difference between a gift and robbery is the method and intention.

"Method and intention" is precisely what *defines* immorality or criminality.

Example: I shoot somebody in self-defence.
I shoot somebody accidentally.
I shoot somebody aggressively.
The same act, but the *intention* alters the morality.

I generously let you off with your gross misunderstandings of my statements about immigration and Islam.
I was wrong, you're just not very intelligent.

Col Rouge: "Any nurse who finds the process of abortion difficult to participate in has the choice of finding another job."

So all those years of medical study should just be thrown away, because they don't want to perform procedures that aren't even *necessary* for the health of the "patient"?

It's hypocritical of feminists to only consider the pregnant woman, but not female doctors or female nurses.
Aren't they "sisters" too?

Abortion is *elective* for the "patient", so why not for the (often female) medical staff?
Where's their right to choose and not be oppressed by another's moral authority.

"Those women who choose abortion are dictating or attempting to dictate, nothing which will materially effect you, nothing at all.
Most do not know you or care about you.
Their action has no material or physical effect on you."

And the guy who rapes, robs and kills my neighbour has done nothing which will materially effect me either.
Should I care?

"You assume the ones who abort are the same as those who demand respect of their pregnancy."

No, but the demanding women are the same: feminist ideologues.

And equating whether to abort with whether to *wear a tie* to work shows just how corrupt and demented your mind really is.