"Shocka, monkeys and primates are a little different.
We humans are classified as primates.
Monkeys have tails, like primates, we don't."

Excuse me Yabby, monkeys aren't primates?
You're repeatedly using the word "primate" but apparently you don't know what it means.

"Primates" is a biological order that includes the Suborder Haplorrhini: tarsiers, monkeys and apes.
The Suborder Haplorrhini includes the Infraorder Simiiformes, which subdivides into the two Pavorders Platyrrhini (New World monkeys) and Catarrhini (Old World Monkeys).
The Parvorder Catarrhini divides into two superfamilies Cercopithecoidea and Hominoidea.
The Superfamily Hominoidea divides into the families Hylobatidae and Hominidae.
Hominidae (or hominids) include humans, chimpanzees, gorillas, and orangutans.
Humans have their *own* genus within this family: Homo.

So, considering the many branches of this family tree, I don't think I was incorrect in using the word "monkeys".

If you wanted to be so anal about correct definitions, then you should have said "hominids" not "primates" (a term which includes all the above subdivisions of monkeys and apes).

You try so hard to sound like you know what you're talking about, but saying monkeys aren't classified as primates is just pathethic.

"Fact is you share 98% of your DNA with bonobos and chimps."

Which should *bury* your argument that biology explains everything!
Did a chimpanzee paint the Sistine Chapel?
Has a bonobo ever circumnavigated the globe?

Whatever similarities there may be, you can't judge humans by comparing them to *other* species.
You can only judge humans by analysis of human behaviour.

And when was the last time a chimpanzee had an abortion, anyway?

"We are a destructive species, we really are."
Oh, boo hoo.

The reason no other species can threaten the planet is because there aren't enough prey to feed the predators, or too many predators to let the prey increase in numbers.

Where a species has no predators, *look out*!
What are cane toads and crown-of-thorns starfish doing in Queensland?
Destroying it!

The only reason humans have developed so far (and the reason we'll fix any problems) is because we're smarter than the average bear (or monkey).

"Excuse me Yabby, monkeys aren't primates?"

Shock, horror, I actually got one word wrong!

I of course meant apes, which are down our
end of the family tree. In fact, in dna terms
we are more closely related to chimps and bonobos
then they are to gorillas.

Monkeys are down the family tree a bit. Yup we
are all primates, including us humans, but to compare
us to our closest relatives, the apes, is what I am
on about. So you are Shocka the primate :)

"Which should *bury* your argument that biology explains everything!"

It does not need to explain everything, for environment clearly
matters. The fact that it explains a huge amount, is sufficient.
Thats far more useful then some of your voodoo suggestions of earlier.

"Did a chimpanzee paint the Sistine Chapel?"

Could you paint the Sistine Chapel? So in that regard you are
perhaps not much better then a chimp :) I certainly could not.

"Has a bonobo ever circumnavigated the globe?"

Why would they want to circumnavigate the globe? They are quite
content with their world, plenty of food, sex, friends etc.
Sadly we are trashing their world.

They don't threaten each other with atomic bombs either, so thats
all rather positive and pleasant.

All we need in this world is an evolutionary niche to make a living.
If I dropped you off in the middle of the jungle, you would starve
where a chimp would thrive.

"Whatever similarities there may be, you can't judge humans by comparing them to *other* species."

We certainly can learn a great deal about humans that way!

"And when was the last time a chimpanzee had an abortion, anyway?"

Just like with humans, most abortions are caused by nature herself.

"What are cane toads and crown-of-thorns starfish doing in Queensland?
Destroying it!"

Have you ever heard of translocated species? Caused by humans!
We are so smart? Only sometimes, pretty stupid other times.

In the end we'll trash the planet and mother nature will sort it
out with a thud.

"Monkeys aren't primates? Shock, horror, I actually got *one word* wrong!"

Understatement of the century from the supposedly "informed" Yabby, who thought "primates" didn't have tails, so monkeys couldn't be primates.

"I of course meant apes".
Yes, monkeys aren't apes.
And neither are giraffes!

But humans are in a genus of *our own*, Homo.
The *closest* link is another genus, Pan (the other of only two genera in "our" Tribe Hominini) which includes only chimpanzees and bonobos and no other apes.

We split from these relatives around *6 million years* ago!
It is nonsense to compare our species with even our closest relatives.

"Could you paint the Sistine Chapel?"
The point is a human could and did.
A chimpanzee couldn't in 6 million years!

"If I dropped you off in the middle of the jungle, you would starve
where a chimp would thrive".
Ever heard of feral people?

"The fact that it (biology) explains a huge amount, is sufficient.
Thats far more useful then some of your voodoo suggestions of earlier."

My voodoo suggestions.
My little fantasy trips.

What will it take to get it through your thick primate skull that *I* didn't invent those ideas.
I simply applied the existing ideas of other people to the topic of abortion.

At least Celivia is honest enough to admit I "put a lot of effort into that post", while you responded in under an hour without addressing one single idea.

I repeat (for the last time, I hope):
I, Shockadelic, didn't invent Nominalism, Idealism, Pantheism, Taoism, Utilitarianism, Skepticism, Empiricism, Panpsychism, Legalism, Dualism, Existentialism, Parallelism, Fatalism, Relativism, Absurdism, Nihilism, Capitalism, Physicalism, Surrealism, Determinism or Darwinism.
If you want to know who did, you're on the internet, look it up.

"Most abortions are caused by nature herself.
In the end we'll trash the planet and mother nature will sort it out with a thud."

Alright then, we're agreed.
There's no need for surgical abortions, as some natural disaster will wipe us out anyway.
Bring it on, Gaia!

Actually not so, just a word mix up. Given that I commonly call
people by wrong names, (a genetic flaw of mine), I accept that it
can happen. I am quite well informed about primatology. But given
your huge thrill at detecting a word wrong in one of my posts,
I shall have to do it more often, just to make you feel better :)

Humans are primates, from the ape branch of the family tree.
Yup, bonobos ane chimps are our closest relatives.

"We split from these relatives around *6 million years* ago!"

Which is but a blip in evolutionary terms. Even the haemoglobin
in your veins is the same as theirs.

"It is nonsense to compare our species with even our closest relatives."

It makes perfect sense, seeing that we share 98% dna. Not very diferent
at all really, far less then many people can handle.
Some people will deny their relatives.

"The point is a human could and did.
A chimpanzee couldn't in 6 million years!"

The point is you can't, so be honest, in that sense you
are little better then a chimp :)

"Ever heard of feral people?" Yup, they hardly exist and
my point is that you would starve. The chimp in that aspect
is better then you, like it or not!

"There's no need for surgical abortions, as some natural disaster will wipe us out anyway."

Well see Shocka this is where we differ, ie in moral terms.
I believe that people have human rights, so should be allowed
to choose about how they live their lives, as long as this
does not greatly affect other people. So abortion should
be every woman's right.

I also believe that other species have a right to a bit of
this planet, not just humans. So I think that we are highly
immoral in killing off the last of our closest relatives for
meat, just to increase our own population, given that we are
already in overabundance. So according to my morals, I am
a much more moral person then you are

In the worlds before Monkey, primal chaos reigned.
Heavens sought order.

Time and the pure essences of Heaven, the moisture of the Earth, the powers of the Sun and the Moon all worked upon a certain rock, old as creation.
And it became magically fertile.

That first egg was named "Thought".

Tathagata Buddha, the Father Buddha, said "With our thoughts, we make the World".

Elemental forces caused the egg to hatch.
From it came a stone monkey.

The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!

Monkey Magic!

Whatever gets you through the night, Shocka... :)