As the "case" against Dr Haneef falls down in a screaming heap we can bet that not one of the brainless thugs who do things like lock up Cornelia Rau and deport Vivian Alvarez will be brought to book for another stuff up. In fact Keelty will probably be given the ambassador ship to Paris or something for his spectacular stupidity.

It is more than clear than a young man working in Brisbane was not in a burning jeep in Glasgow and even if an expired sim card was in the jeep the young doctor still could not have committed any crime.

Three of the so-called terror group have been released without charge, Dr Sabeel has been charged with "withholding evidence" but the Orwells in London won't tell him what he withheld.

The perpetrator is near death and not expected to survive and two others unrelated to and unknown to Dr Haneef have been charged with conspiracy to make explosives.

Except they were not explosives you see. 13 gallons of petrol and a few nails on the floor of a car will not explode ever without a detonator or at least some high explosives of some sort.

howard and co don't have the manpower to do a 'national socialist' makeover of oz. but they sure have the principles firmly understood.

shortly, rudd will be pm, and discover a shocking shortfall in the number of federal police. he will also do a deal with your isp: they stay in business, he gets a copy of my keyboarding. yours, too. better get ready now:

"god bless ya, massa! rule 10,000 years, mighty rudd!"

KEELTY DENIES MISHANDLING OF HANEEF'S DIARY

The latest moral error by the AFP appears to be annotating Haneef's diary apparently to entrap him or at least rattle him.

Article in today's Australian http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22118165-5001561,00.html:

"...The Australian today reported police had written the names of overseas terror suspects in Haneef's personal diary before asking the Indian doctor during an interview if he had written the potentially incriminating notes himself...

The Australian today reported excerpts (sic) of the first interview between Dr Haneef and two officers from the AFP's counter-terrorism force, Queensland Detective Sergeant Adam Simms and federal agent Neil Thompson.

Towards the end of the interview, which occurred soon after Dr Haneef was arrested at Brisbane International Airport on July 2 for allegedly providing support to a terrorist organisation, Sergeant Simms states: "In your diary, you had handwritten notes. Is this your writing?"

Dr Haneef replies: "No. This is not my writing. Definitely not."

After suspending the interview, the officers returned to the question of the handwritten notes, including the name and contact details of suicide bomber Kafeel Ahmed, a second-cousin of Dr Haneef.

Sergeant Simms states: "Now, as I was alluding to, or as I was going to show you, before ... police who have been looking through your diary have found some handwritten notes in the back of your diary. And one of these handwritten notes is details for Kafeel Ahmed. Telephone numbers and looks like an address. A couple of addresses. Now, that writing there, is that your writing?"

When Dr Haneef again denies it is his writing, Sergeant Simms leaves the room. He returns and says: "Thought that might have been the case. In fact, it's not. This is what's been written by police. So it's not your handwriting at all."

Haneef must have been relieved that police admitted they'd just tried to set him up...

If the police want to run a deniable covert action campaign they have to think big. Just ask the Saudis http://spyingbadthings.blogspot.com/2007/07/saudis-unsung-suicide-bombers-in-iraq.html

Pete

This kind of antagonistic article is nothing more than a bug light for lefty bimbos.

If it wasn't for the real harm that's been done to various people the Howard government's efforts at whistles and wedges this year would be highly amusing.

Shock and awe, people. We're taking over water.
How're you going to do that?
Well, it's a really important plan and carefully thought out and, oh forget it.

Shock and awe, people. We're saving the little aborigines.
How're you going to do that?
Well, the police and the army will fix everything because we've worked out how it's all going to happen and, oh forget it.

Shock and awe, people. We got ourselves a real live terrorist.
What'd he do?
Well, he had this SIM card and this really funny look about him, kind of foreign-like, and, oh forget it.

Next.

Thank you OLO for inviting Marilyn to add her comments. Marilyn is the OLO resident shotfirer and she doubles as lead detective. The only people who didn't get a mention in her post are the Bhaktiaris.

Marilyn
You said “It is more than clear than a young man working in Brisbane was not in a burning jeep in Glasgow and even if an expired sim card was in the jeep the young doctor still could not have committed any crime.”

If the sim card was given to Kafeel to help with avoiding electronic surveillance then that would be conspiracy to assist in a terrorist related offence. That IS serious.

We haven’t seen any evidence that suggests that this was what Haneef was attempting to do? But that’s not what you said.

The Howard gov’t have made a real mess of this situation, no doubt. I hope they lose the next election

“The Orwells in England”, why not go the whols hog, surely they are Nazi’s aren’t they marilyn. Your hysterical ranting weakens your case with everyone except those who already share your far left views. There are very good reason why terrorist suspects aren’t always told what evidence they are being held on. The most obvious is that it denies those accomplices out there any knowledge of the police/security forces investigation.

The perpetrator Kafeel Ahmed, is the brother of Sabeel and the second cousin of Haneef. Who cares if he’s nearly dead? Are we meant to feel sorry for him? He tried to kill as many men women and children as he could.

Marilyn you are an expert on the effects of explosives? You think they should be treated more leniently because they are inept? Their intent was to kill as many people as they could as well as damaging/destroying the airport terminals. It doesn’t matter that they weren’t very good at it.

This case has damaged the credibilty of the government and its agencies. Haneef has been convicted in court of public opinion on a thin tissue of lies selectively leaked by the government.

Marilyn wasn't the first blogger or letter writer to compare Haneef's situation with a eastern european soviet era nightmare or a Kafkaesque scenario. Haneef is innocent of the charges laid out in the media of the last month.

This is looking seriously bad for the government. If it turns out that all that that Haneef did was give his SIM card to a relative before he travelled overseas, and that neither the SIM card nor Haneef were in the least bit involved in the attempted bombing in Edinburgh, then Kevin Andrews is going to have a lot of explaining to do. He was very unwise to get so directly involved by cancelling Haneef's visa.

As I'm sure you all know, when the Spanish government tried to exploit a terrorist attack to its own ends, the voters turned on it ferociously. If it turns out that KA and JH have tried to do the same thing here, then whatever chance they have of being re-elected will disappear into thin air.

In opinion polls, the government performs poorly in every criteria except the economy and security. The economy isn't looking too flash at the moment with four interest rates (or is it more?) since the 'interest rate' election. If they screw up security as well they will have nothing. We may well see them reduced to a handful of seats.

I don’t know who on earth you are, but you sound like the sort of person we really don’t need in this country.
You make light of the terrorism threat, but give no reasons why you think we should just ignore it…and you sound as though you might be an escapee from one of the many Labor blogs, with your Left wing rants and inane ‘rodent’ references.
John Howard is confused , you say? Well, confusion and a muddled mind are the hallmarks of your own nasty little piece.
You want bail for terrorist suspects, do you? Well, I hope it’s your children and not mine on the spot when one of those whose rights you cherish above those of Australian citizens, decides to blow up some innocent Australians one of these days.
The unsavoury vision you speak of is our government's effort to protect Australians from terrorism.
I think when you’re thinking ‘unsavory’, you could look a little closer to home.
I’m especially hoping Howard wins the election, because , as you inform us so eloquently, John Howard’s Australia is not for you.
Well…that’s good news …you might find it more comfortable elsewhere.

How about this real. In the 60,000 or so years that Australia has had human beings living on it we can safely say that not one person has been blown up by a sim card left in London.

In fact not one person has ever been blown up in Australia by any muslim terrorist.

That is why we should ignore the drivel, not to mention we managed to survive for 30 years or so with the threat of nuclear wipeout without behaving like snivelling cowards.

Hmmm..... A fairly strong response from 'real'. I think 'real', you've let your own (no doubt deeply held) beliefs get in the way of a rational opinion on this matter (unless you're trolling. I'll assume you're not).

The thing is that Australians *do* take terrorism seriously. The problem for the government is that there is an increasing amount of suspicion that maybe the government doesn't take it seriously. Maybe we don't know everything there is to know about the Haneef affair but if all that happened was that two years ago, he gave a SIM card to a relative before leaving overseas, and if the SIM card had nothing to do with the attempted bombing, then Kevin Andrew's intervention looks seriously dodgy. In fact it looks like *he's* not taking terrorism seriously and is playing politics it.

This Haneef affair really troubles me. On 'Insiders' on the weekend Matt Price made the point that if the situation were reversed (say an Australian backpacker were treated like this in India) we'd be frothing with outrage. Especially with bizarre events like the police scribbling terrorist names in the diary. (I mean, what was that about? Was it incompetence or something more sinister?)

Then there's the matter of jurisdiction. If a crime was committed, it was committed in the UK, not here. If the brits want him, then let them extradite him.

Anyway, I think it is very important that we see the evidence against Haneef very soon, or that he gets out on bail, especially since, at least on the face of it, Haneef hasn't done anything illegal in Australia.

Real

Thanks for your Post. I assume you are speaking to our Marilyn Shepard.

Nobody can say I have not tried to work with Muslim and Muslim Leaders of Australia.

In fact I am the only Australian as far as I know to ave a MOU with them. We are even featured on their web page.
here- under Halal Kind Meats >

http://www.afic.com.au/

That is for Marilyns Shepards benefit so she cant say I am anti Muslim.

We have offered her for years on and off a chance to help the aboriginal people through our programe.
Very little interest I am afraid.

Unlike some the Howard Government have actually been working very hard for two years to put together something for the aboriginal people of Australia.


Now M unlike yourself I wrote to the QLD Government ten years ago about overseas Drs here.

I wanted to know why 80% of public Drs were being employed for a company by the name of Global in Salt Lake City.

I gave a real good example of not only incompidence but down right illegal practices.

The standards of medical training is a discrace. QLD people have had enough of these so called Drs.

They dont need explosives to kill because they are killings us already and worse.

I know its nothing to "you" this dood is a cousin of the other bloke and "lived with them."

btw--fyi John Howard does not run the Federal Police either.

You know far more than the Federal police do you/
Please share?

After all - whats 13 gal of petrol and a few nails in a "DRS "?Car without a explosive?

Why oh Why do you always claim everybodys been set up without knowing anything.
You do yourself a diservice and the ones who possibly are.
Why dont you think the Federal Police should not err on the side of caution M?
I just do not understand why you never wait to find all the facts.
Regards from The Gold Coast

Marilyn
I think you have overlooked some rather basic points in your dialogue.
1) Cornelia Rau was found wandering in the Queensland bush. She gave a false name and refused to speak English. She carried no ID and her behaviour was bizarre, the authorities could not establish an identity and she was not listed as missing. That would seem an immediate family failing to me?

2) The goose that cooked himself in Glasgow was not driving around with a car full of nails, petrol and gas cylinders to make the caring doctor of the year list.

3) I am sure Bill Kelty knows more about the workings of doctor Haneef and his associations than you or I do. What would you have to say if Haneef was released and another Haneef associate in Australia carried a bombing ? Let the AFP do the research and if he is innocent then release him.

real, your faith in your government is very sweet.

For all I know Dr. Haneef could be a criminal mastermind.

However, based on the evidence available so far, he looks more like the hapless Josef K in Franz Kafka's novel, The Trial. The AFP look like the Keystone Cops.

I'll reserve final judgment until the matter either comes to trial and we can see the evidence, or is dismissed; but so far I'm not impressed by the performance of those charged with protecting us.

I cannot improve on Sushi Das's analysis of the AFP interviewing Haneef so I'll post a link and let readers see for themselves:

http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/police-dont-recognise-key-cultural-social-signposts/2007/07/22/1185042944420.html

When the dust has settled I think we shall find there are two lessons to be learned from the Haneef affair.

(1)Be wary of granting the police too many powers to detain without trial. Even with the best of intentions they're likely to cock it up.

(2)Don't curb free speech. It is only because people like Sushi Das are allowed an unfettered right of comment that abuses or misuses of power can be brought to light.

The last comment is especially relevant to Muslims. Do not be so keen to restrict freedom of speech because you don't like what people say about Islam. You never know when you will need people who can speak their minds freely.

It appears that a key member of the Government is admitting Dr Haneef's incarceration is drifting further from a crime that occurred in Britain and more towards pre-electoral desperation:

The Herald Sun today http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22123510-662,00.html reported

"THE legal team for Dr Mohamed Haneef continued its battle to free the accused terror suspect as the Government yesterday admitted it cancelled his visa purely to keep him in the country.

Deputy Prime Minister Mark Vaile said that Immigration Minister Kevin Andrews' decision to cancel Dr Haneef's visa immediately after he was granted bail in a Brisbane Magistrates' Court last week was "to ensure the individual stayed in Australia".

The Government's admission was another boost for Dr Haneef's team, which has been outspoken of the Australian Federal Police and the Government's handling of the case.

Last week, Mr Andrews revoked Dr Haneef's visa, despite his bail conditions including him surrendering his passport.

Mr Vaile's admission caught Mr Andrews -- who spent most of last week justifying his decision on character and national security -- by surprise, his office referring calls on the matter back to Mr Vaile".

Rapid Government denials are expected. The Government now appears under too much pressure to deny things convincingly - however much it exposes the AFP to political campaigning.

The Government may well be saving up its touted secret evidence for hearings in August - closer to the election - great timing - more strategic Government leaks before that?

Pete

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/nothing-much-on-haneef-india/2007/07/24/1185043115513.html
I love it when the usual paranoics step into the fray with mindless drivel.

Yes the lad in Glasgow had a shocking fire but not one person has ever suggested it was a bomb anywhere in any coverage of the story.

However, it is our stupid Mick Keelty who keeps getting things horribly wrong. I don't have the foggiest notion why he has his job after turning in the Bali 9 to see them on death row when he actively conspired for the drug smuggling to happen, when he lied to the senate about Mamdouh Habib being in Egypt and other assorted madness.

So India have found nothing on Dr Haneef, the Brits. were never interested in him and the clowns in Australia over reacted and made the rest of it up.

As I said in the beginning.

plantagent

And the Government might not be doing anything but their job.

I am sure the Australian Government didnt arrange the bloke in UK to try to blow something up just to stick a sim card in his pocket to say his cousin works in Gold Coast Australia.

All these theories.

Maybe the Government will just let the Federal police get on with their job until August which isnt long and the court.

Everybody wants this case sorted and nobody wants to lock up an innocent man. Anybody who claims that is living on another planet.

For starters we dont need problems with India and the PM knows it.

I would like to thank the Federal Police for the hard job they do.

It must be really motivating to work so hard to protect this ungrateful lot.

HOWEVER The Government ARE responsibly for throwing our population so out of wack its hard to find a true blue Aussie.
Where do you think all these ideas comes from?
They come mostly from people who want to chip away at our society.

People who want to change this country.

You can give a man or women a visa for a week a year or ten years but there is nothing you can give him to suddenly turn him into a Australian.
Being Australian is not a bit of paper.

Stop giving these people PR and give them extended visas.
That way you may stop some of the movement to bring down Australian Governments

It seems that Rudd failed to take the bait on this one, which was probably the real intention behind its escalation.

If it goes bad, Howard will now have to wear any consequences on his own.

It may well be that Haneef has plenty to fear (ie he is aware of the extent of the evidence against him; we are not) and is in the process of accepting some sort of deal. This may involve giving information for his "freedom". In order for his associates not to be alarmed as he rats on them, he has been told to play it, loudly,as "I'm not saying nothing. I'm a 100% innocent man" while the cops make out "he's a tough nut to crack". Meanwhile numerous useful idiots run around screaming "he's not saying nothing, he's a tough nut to crack BECAUSE he's a 100% innocent man". Sooner or later he will be sent home after spilling his guts and the "authorities" will take the heat as incompetent morons, while calmly rounding up the villains Dr H has fingered.

Similar to David Hicks, it isn't enough to just name names. The cops/CIA have to have time to follow up on the info received, to ensure that it's legit. Haneef would be ratting on nutjobs in Britain and, maybe India, who are probably being tracked right now (maybe the ones currently held are on the list). This could take a while, and obviously the cops want them under lock and key before letting Haneef go home; too late to warn them and too dangerous to admit he's been singing. Hicks' "betrayed" would've taken quite a bit longer to verify, seeing as they were harder to find. Thus he had to sit it out a little longer than Haneef. Judging from his appearance and demeanor, it wasn't all that stressful for DH. It won't be for Haneef either,

PS. I recall reading that a person resembling DH had been seen on the mainland USA during his "incarceration" at Gitmo. At a cathouse in NYC. At a gaming house in Las vegas. At the races in Kentucky. At the Golf in Augusta. At a fight at The Garden. At the Miss Universe Pageant in Puerta Rico in 2005. Wonder what David did to earn these priveleges? Eh guys? Cheers.

Let’s be assured in my deep personal disappointment for lack of the local really neutralizing terrorism activities, as in Italy these days long-time operating in Perujo under noses of public mujahed-preparing courses were at last dismantled and al-Quaeda residents uprooted.

However, such a luck of a lack locally is a wick excuse for a story of a year ago being terminated mobile card found somewhere in possessions of one-not-alerting-authorities-about-he-might-know-of-something-in-Glazgo-at-the-end-of-the-world-somewhere.

And about Mr. J. Howard book by W.Errington and P.Olensten, “John Winston Howard: The Biography”, provides, as understood, a picturesque description of a gray suburban rat, of which mere meanness and marriage-sustained protectionism were the most upon a life.

Those who have time to read my material on my blog at http://au.360.yahoo.com/profile-ijpxwMQ4dbXm0BMADq1lv8AYHknTV_QH and my website at http://www.schorel-hlavka.com will discover a lot that is mainly unknown to most Australians.
I for one continue to pursue that Howard and his cronies should be held accountable before the Courts. It doesn’t matter if he is out of the Parliament or not as I view to hold him accountable is a warning to others not to follow his conduct.
We must not forget that on 19 October 2007 it will be 6 years of the drowning of 353 people (including 146 children) with SIEV-X and this too must be appropriately dealt with before the Courts as like numerous other matters, such as the unconstitutional invasion into Iraq.
Either we have a Constitution and apply the RULE OF LAW to all or we have none and have a DICTATORSHIP.

As my blog makes clear regarding Dr. Haneef case there is a lot more to it and why I view it is important that for once and for all were address these issues appropriately as to avoid others, under what ever name, to suffer the same!

Last year, I did purchase a pallet of nails/screws, etc, is that meaning I am a terror suspect? Or are they going to come down to count all screws and nails in the home renovation to make sure none are used in bombs?

Oops, I drive a car, don't they use cars for car-bombings? the police better impound all motor-vehicles in the Commonwealth of Australia as anyone of them could be used.

It is the Federal Government which is the real TERRORIST.

What a crazy world!

Now that the young Doctor has been verballed, vilified and demonised in prison Damian Bugg is stepping in about 3 weeks too late for this young man.

For the hysterics how about this. We take very car off the road, we lock up all men and we women can run the joint.

After all cars are used as bombs so we can't have any of the nasty things on our roads and most of the drivers are men.

Easy, problem solved.

Howard & Co attempted to instill Fear about union bosses but failed to change the poll ratings. They then attempted to use prejudice with the NT ‘shock and awe’ campaign but failed to change the poll ratings. So, the next thing was to use fear and xenophobia together with Haneef being the victim of Howard’s determination to win but he didn’t expect Haneef’s barrister to take action to show that Howard had manipulated a police state plan with the AFP to fabricate false evidence, a dastardly plan of lies and deceit in order to con the gullible and naïve yet again.

I'm quite sure Howard hasn't given up on using Fear and Xenophobia as his 'rabbits out of the hat' strategies, and expect him to use the ‘terrorism’ strategy again, especially at the APEC meeting. However, from now on, the AFP may not be so willing to go along with the PM's police state tricks, as they failed dismally trying it this time.

I find it shocking that so many people were conned by Howard's latest fear and xenophobia trick. If it hadn't been for the barrister sticking his neck out, the ruse might have worked. Despite the children overboard the gullible and naïve would have been conned yet again by the Howard government's propaganda machine. We can only hope that with this fiasco, the majority of the gullible and naïve will wake up and stay awake as this was the nastiest case of political trickery I've seen in this country.

Meanwhile I certainly hope that the review of Haneef's case results in him being released soon. I think he'll probably be deported to India sooner rather than later as Howard & Co will want the voters to forget this failed political trick so they can clear the decks before they try their next 'terror' stunt during the APEC meeting.

Bobbicee and Marilyn

Why dont you wait to see what happens in court before saying anything against our AFP who are charged with protecting you.

John Howard just like the rest of us takes his advise off the AFP and so does his Minister.

Also they wont deport him if there is proof he is innocent.

He will of course ask to leave. The tax payer will most likely pick up the bill if thats the case along with a quite settlement.
Which brings us back to the fact we should have our own Drs.

The Federal Government passed over billions to the ALP States for training and education of Drs and others.
Where are they? Stop putting it at the feet of the Federal Government when each State is resonsibly for their own hospitals and Drs.
The hospitals are controlled by the states along with nursing homes and a whole lot of other stuff.
I would imagine it would be the same as a murder as far as the case would be set out in law.
That means you have to show one hundred percent the guys guilty.

Many people have walked in Australia because of these laws.
Its our so called justice system.
I am not like yourselves by pre judging this matter because I dont have all the facts.
You keep picking on The Prime Minister who was in America when they hit the world trade center. I can imagine the effect that would have on a PM.

We know we have sleepers here and have had for years.
So I think its fair we err on the side of caution.
If this guy is not charged with anything it could be either because he is innocent or we dont have enough evidence.

All we know is he shared accomadtion with them and the one involved is his cousin.

If I were the AFP I certainly would have picked him up as a person of interest.


Nobody wants to see an innocent person goaled.
Its not the Aussie way.

Yeah, a pity, but this doctor working as a hospital desk registrar (!) is seen to be the most suspect because of not applying for PR as other way-bought fellow-countrymen of him, and being Muslim. Well, the US ambassador to the UN is Muslim too.

All my civic and juror’s expertise could hardly allow being naïve to such a degree:
“Why dont you wait to see what happens in court before saying anything against our AFP who are charged with protecting you.

John Howard just like the rest of us takes his advise off the AFP and so does his Minister.

Also they wont deport him if there is proof he is innocent.”

And how could one deal with un-deportable Australians? Any tender on erecting the modern concentration camps locally? Or renovating the Nauru refugee camps for benefiting a banana-state with a hard currency income to repay Australian credits?

It is really a pity that this guy is rather alike a sarcastic movie porno-character than traditional terrorist, a black beard, eyes and toned skin.

PALE, clearly Marilyn and Bobbicee had a clearer understanding of the problem. Dr Haneef must still be anxious about remaining in department of immigration "care"

Michaelk Billie

It would seem Australias terribly unfair sytem has indeeed been fair according to the news.

Please do not try to twist my words and make out I am anti Muslim either.

As a matter of fact I work very closely with Muslim leaders Of Australia and hold a MOU with them.


That does not mean I cant have any thoughts on how we run our sercurity in this country.

Does anybody know why he was at the air port with a one way ticket to India?

We heard the hospital was expecting him at work that day.

Perhaps that was simply media hype although I hear locally his landlord was not expecting him to be leaving the country either.

As I said its best to wait until we get all of the facts rather than make judgement either way.

The head of AFP said on the news last night that his advise regarding him has not changed.

I asume he means that he still finds this man as a person of interest.

Mind you I am just guessing.

On the other hand PALEIF, it could just mean that there is utterly no case and never was. I think Dr Haneef was lucky he was as innocent as he appeared. Despite this, only the additional fact of a Keystone Cops, Prosecutors and Andrews vaudeville so spectacular even the press could not ignore it eventaully saved him.
Yet Dr Haneef, for little better than the colour of his skin, has had to endure a traumatic time in his life that he will have nightmares over for decades to come. A stronger, but weak by any normal standards case, would had whoever the poor victim was rotting forever.
The laws give too much power to those not capable of handling it and demand too little accountability. Only the weakest possible case could have failed and only then from complicating factors. And now they want "reform" it to make it even harder for a defendent to protect herself.
Return the normal assumptions of innocence prior to guilt and habeas corpus to the law and make prosecutors prove their assumptions, not have hapless bystanders picked up on a whim busting their guts to prove their innocence against the concocted slanders and whimsical accusations of idiots like Bugg and Andrews.
No accountability; no democracy, only a police state.

All this story is a classic example of HAVEs and HAVE-NOTs differences in saving money, to my regrettable experience.

1. In Europe foreign travelers are able to get connected with local SIMcards, which makes international roaming irrelevant for expense its attracts. A sort of a pre-paid stuff it could save for strangers but hardly suite locals for understandable reason. Therefore, a few dollars saving is something to Europeans famous for their …gm… economic attitude toward a cent to spend.
2. The similar economy-wise story with a ticket. A two-way ticket bought in Australia is, perhaps, a hundred or two more expensive than paying a return from India and, as a young father explained, a relative had promised to pay him a return. Sounds logically, because not everyone in India can pay cash for overseas trip personally…At least because one has not documents traveling: few days ago I was asked at the Post for a father’s pension card while paying his water bill in AUSTRALIA, although none was asking me paying it with e-bank HO HO HO.

By a way, none accused him in attempt to damage a jet-so what is a curiosity of one-way ticket?

Should everybody settle in Australia if there is a choice existing

It is notable that “People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming” is all about animal rights, regardless if it is legal to export them, but when it comes to humans it seems then the trauma caused upon a person is not relevant.

I have set out on my blog extensively why the case against Dr Haneef was to fail (as it did with the charges) and why the AFP will fail. Likewise so I suspect will the case against Tony Mokbel fail and in time we will find that many a person convicted of crimes will have their convictions found to be NULL AND VOID (ULTRA VIRES).

You see, the RULE OF LAW is not what ever Parliament wants to make out of it, it is what is constitutionally permissible. And there is the problem. Many laws that are enacted are unconstitutional and so in time will be resulting to convictions being worthless.

What is the use to follow such disastrous path? Just-to-score-convictions-for-political-gains?

Now we have claims that Kevin Andrews has “intelligence” about Dr. Haneef that justify the cancellation of the visa. Well, probably the kind of intelligence we had as to the illusive WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!
Constitutionally, the Minister cannot enforce anything unless he obtains a Court order! And constitutionally the Commonwealth cannot dictate a State Court if “intelligence” evidence is not to be heard in open Court!
Enough about those so called “intelligence” and let go down to ordinary rights of any person to be told what is accused against him/her!
We do not want to be governed by any government that can claim “intelligence” regardless no such “intelligence” advice may exist!

As I understand it, the AFP vandalised Dr. Haneef’s flat, and now he was evicted and for what? Anyone who thinks that this kind of conduct is going to scare of a real terrorist doesn’t understand what really motivates a terrorist. Indeed, it rather warns a terrorist that all they need to do is to side trace the AFP upon some innocent person and then the real terrorist can do whatever was planned.

PALE, Haneef had a one way ticket because he was going to get a visa for the new baby so he couldn’t nominate the day he could return. He had asked for and received leave as he wanted to get back to support his wife as it had been a difficult birth. BTW, according to a Dr friend of mine who works at GC Hospital, Haneef was an excellent Dr. Keelty was trying to cover his arse by saying Haneef was still ‘a person of interest.’

Funguy, I agree with you, there was never a case. And yes, it was Steven Keim who exposed the whole vauderville act, otherwise they would still be using the false evidence and continue to railroad Haneef until after the election, then drop charges. You’re spot on, the laws do give too much power and too little accountability as shown in this dastardly fiasco. If this hadn’t been a fiasco, it would have taken us further into the realms of a fascist police state. The similarities between Nazi Germany and the rape of our democracy exemplified by this false arrest and false evidence gathering is very frightening. http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/nazi_police_state.htm In addition, the propaganda in the last 6 years, and continuing now, is very similar. http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/propaganda_in_nazi_germany.htm Yes, be afraid, of the loss of our democracy. Get Up has it right in it’s ‘terrorism’ ad. http://www.ozin30seconds.org/video/emotional_terrorism

Gerrit S-H, We agree, Andrews will continue to ‘hint’ that he has additional intelligence to try to continue to con the voters. To be honest, I’m scared that the voters will be conned yet again, because if The Rodent gets reelected, he will continue to erode democracy and further his police state strategies

Mr Gerrit
There is but ONE Aussie group working very closely with the Muslim Leaders of Australia.
Yes we stand up for common decency to Animals and people.
Actually the two go hand in hand.
Click here to see our progects working together to unite Muslim people with Aussies Click on the two doves and please! note this is on "their"
web page
http://www.afic.com.au/
WE are also working to introduce Aboriginal progects working with regional areas and Muslim people.
I think you will find this a first in Australia so nobody can accuse us of being Anti Muslim.
The Dr was NOT evicted . The landlord said he was welcome back.
However nobody contacted him regarding the rent.
I am unsure if he asked for leave .
I also know many head Drs at the Hospital and its claimed he was expected at the hospital n the dat he was picked up.

I think we all need to remember Australia DID set him Free.
Perhaps that might not have happend in another country even if they had stuffed up.
Our belief is to treat ALL Animals and People with fairness and Kindness
My Name Is Taryn and I have worked with People Against Live Exports for three years and also on their projects working with Muslim People Of Australia.
I can assure you there is nothing but love and good will that flows from People Against Live Exports to ALL people and Animals.

TarynW, perhaps, nobody “can accuse you being anti-Muslim” because you are simply xenophobic folks, and it is so locally natural that in the Australian fed-up feel even no shadow of comprehending the pattern of being anti-Muslim along this line general.

Ignoring my posts is a good example for this line-not for my religious attachments at first stage.

Taryn,

You claimed that Australia “DID” sent Dr. Haneef free. Well, I understand that his visa was cancelled and refused to be re-instated and so Dr. Haneef had no choice but to leave or be likely detained in a unconstitutional Commonwealth Detention Centre. This appears was all along the intention of Kevin “bomb” Andrews. Yes, now he argued that he did the right thing as otherwise a “bomb” could have been used.
.
"Naturally, the common people don't want war, but after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy, or a facist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they're being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country."
.
Hermann Goering, Hitlers' Reich-Marshall, at the Nuremberg trials after WW2.
.
This has been all along the tactic used by John Howard. The Tampa, the terrorist between the refugees, the WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, etc, etc.
.
In reality John Howard is the TERRORIST. While I have made this very clear, and so in court proceedings also, John Howard would not dare to take me on that I was, so to say, slandering him as he was specifically provided with a copy of my book in July 2006, which was also used as evidence in the successful appeals!
.
It is like the unconstitutional invasion into Iraq, where allegedly the late President Saddam Hussein was not in compliance with UN resolutions by having WEAPONS-OF-MASS-DESTRUCTION. After all had the Coalition of the Willing not invaded he could have used those “ILLUSIVE” WEAPONS-OF-MASS-DESTRUCTION to terrorise the world, wouldn’t he?
.
I have no doubt that in time Australians will pay the price for their murderous invasion! In-decades-to-come-people-will-then-ask-why-Australians-allowed-John-Howard-to-vandalise-our-democratic-system!
.
We should adhere to the RULE-OF-LAW permissible by the Constitution!

Michael
We are really busy here. I just like to pop on these OLO sometimes as a bit of a break from work. I dont always read every comment. I would like to but cant spare the time.
The the other gentleman wrote something that I decided to follow through on.
I understand that everybody who spends their time to post on a thread looks for a reply.

Also many people read these posts and never make a comment- ever.
Mr G

Possibly John Howard was misinformed about some things.
However either way if your trying to tell me Australia was safe before -I would disagree.
All Westernern Countries were are still are on the hit list by these people.
As far as SH is concerned many were delighted to see him go.
He was a cruel man who gassed his own people and tortured and murdered thousands more.

What I dont understand is both your agressive attitudes to be honest.
Australia is the first country to offer help in a disaster.

Just look at the efforts made by our people after the floods.
If you dont like it here why dont you simply just leave.
I love Australia and our way of life.
I love the fact we are always the first to help others.
As for these wars all I can think of is the world trade center.
What an evil act.

If Bush or Tony Blaire thought by going in after some of the people behind that then personally I dont have a problem with it.

I do agree this country will be attacked- Yes.
I remember my wonderful grandfather telling us kids we would never hold ths country in the years to come.
I tend to think we will give them a darn good run for their money however.
Freedom is a wonderful thing and like our grandfather and fathers before us we will fight to keep it.

According to several posters here, this country is in the hands of a bigotted despot[right marilyn?] who is making a victim out of would be migrants simply to gain votes in a forthcoming election.
I would suggest that to save any further suffering on their part, they pack up and take off for Pakestan, Saudi Arabia, Libya ,Darfur, Sudan and various other health spots where they will get the freedom they so richly deserve.
Then we who are still here[I was going to say LEFT here but we are right]will be able to live without all the screeching and divisiveness[marilyn] that rules our once peaceful life. Go in peace, soon.

I must repeat that I am deeply dissatisfied with a lack of a practical outcome from bravados at a very start of a Haleef case, of which just the UK and probably the USA might be contributed with an effective reason for denying an entry to a foreigner-Muslim having his Australian visa cancelled on behavioral grounds.

No, the US would hardly be contributed as Indian nationals need the US entry visa anyway.

TarynW, what for a nonsense of a comment is that about that I can leave if I don’t like it. I come up for constitutional rights and pursue the RULE OF LAW as constitutionally permissible. If you approve TYRANNY and DICTATORSHIP then you can have it but then do not complain about animal rights either.

I have just put another article on my blog and about this nonsense of “secret intelligence” as Kevin Andrews is on about. We had this all about the WEAPONS-OF-MASS-DESTRUCTION. We were guaranteed they had the reliable information but could not release it to us. We also had the promise the WMDs would be found within 6 months. We are now 4½ year later!

I may not approve of what is reported about the conduct of the late President Saddam Hussein, but a fact was that he had constitutional immunity! If we were to apply the same of John Howard and his cohorts they would quickly claim to have constitutional protection, yet against others it is a different thing.

The Australian Federal Police has no constitutional powers and on that basis any purported evidence they have should be inadmissible in Court. Now as long as the Commonwealth of Australia persist to conduct matters unconstitutionally then they must face the consequences. We had enough innocent people framed by authorities, Time Anderson being one having spend about 10 years in imprisonment. Now, this is not at all making Australia safer, rather unsafe.

Just wait till one day you are the victim of this power abuse and then see how you will react. I do not think you will then be so supportive of this kind of tyranny!

A society must have rules and no one should be above the law, not even politicians.
We, as a society, murdered Iraqi’s in their own country, in their own homes, such as toddlers when asleep in bed. If you even contemplate to justify such a conduct then I view you lost the plot.

And, reality is we are now worse of then before the invasion!

One-day-the-"MADE IN THE USA" BIOLOGICAL/CHEMICAL WEAPONS-may-be-delivered-to-us,-no-matter-how-unwelcome-it-might-be.

Mr G. No sir you are the only one shouting.
Dont you remember the world trade center which was an attack on all of us?

M Shepard. How can Howard be reponsible for what some guy did or didnt do with his Sim Card?
Give us a break.
The Australian Federal Policde[ no spell correction apoligies]
= Police are charged with putting your safety first.
They did that.
Now M the question is are they more experienced than you?
Answer= Yup.
What about asking if I am more experienced than you when dealing with these people?
lets compare notes shall we?

Would it be fair to say they[ the federal police] have been lied to eye to eye on many ocashions? Answer is-= Yup
Question - Is the Australian Governments" responsible in any way for this split country?
Answer is Yup.
Do people suddenly become Australian because they have a peice[piece] of paper saying they are? Answer is = Nope.
Should we give out visas on different time levels [ ie one year two year five year ten year instead of PR papers.
Answer is Yup.

Are their[there] any people who might just have a little more first hand dealings and information that yourself and good old Mr G ?
Answer is = Yup

Is John Howard guilty of putting the safety of Australians first?
Answer is= Yup.
Are the federal Police guilty of putting the safety of Australian public first?
Answer is Yup.
Would you leave your [p]= lap top behind if your were a Dr on leave?
If so why?
Wouldnt you be concerned about your patients in the case the need arose for other Drs to contact you?
Dont you think the conversation with the brother was enough to pick him up?
If not why not?
Would you prefer we did nothing to protect the men and women of Australia because we might offend somebody?
What do you think we could do to improve sercurity in Australia?

People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming-
“What could we do to prevent terrorism?”

-abolishing de-facto racist politics underpinning Australia’s reality
-decreasing intake of migrants in general and high educated skilled practically as they are natural enemies of the racist Australian establishment
-no concentration of Muslims to be allowed in country areas where not-willing-to-notice-only knows of NO training camps.

Michael

You at least are being faoir[ fair] and looking to addressing these problems.

I agree with most of your comments.

Also we need our Government to make one law for all.

I remember contacting Phillip Ruddocks office years ago regarding a genioun concern.

I ended up speaking with both of his advisors over a two week period.

I was stunned to discover that neither one of them knew the UK had to rush an act of Parliment through about twenty years ago regarding marriage and divorce.

It was declayed that Muslims living in the UK did not have to follow the common law when it came to marriage and divorce.

When I suggested Muslims ought not to be allowed to marry in Mosques in Australia if they were already married the advisor said and I quote- "Whats the difference between them doing that and a Aussie bloke having a wife and a mistress?"

I told him there was plenty of difference and if he or I did likewise we would be charged with bigamy.

I told him it was not a good idea to teach anybody not to respect our laws.
He said he could not see my problem.
I said if he was the advisor for Australia then God Help our country.
breaking the law is breaking the law.
Its not fair that only some of the public must follow the law while others thumb their noses at it by simply saying.
But we dont belive in your laws. We dont belive in your God.
Mean time you and I are golaed[ goaled] for the same actions.
chip Chip Chipping away at our lasw[ laws and our soceity as we know it.
No I am not racist but we are being treated in a racist way if we complain.
Wake up People of Australia.

People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming I do believe you are doing an injustice to use this identity and then seemingly disregard the harm to people. As if you care more about animals then humans.

As to the advisers of Phillip Ruddock, it is no wonder where Ruddock himself disregards the rights of people. Vivian Alvarez Solon is a clear example!

As a “CONSTITUTIONALIST”, (without seeking to present my personal views) the Framers of the Constitution dealt with the issue of marriage between one man and one woman. Hence, I do not accept the Commonwealth of Australia could legalise so called gay couples as a matrimonial relationship and neither approve payment in that regard. As such neither benefits for the gay partner of Mr Michael Kirby J of the High Court of Australia. Neither to provide for De Facto relationship payments or indeed accept any kind of De Facto relationships.
On that basis, Section 116 of the constitution does not come into play as to religion, as to Muslims or whomever having a religion to permit a person to be married to more then one person of the opposite gender, as simply the moment a religious conduct is in conflict to constitutional provisions, including implied or embedded provisions and principles then the religious conduct must give way. Hence, any person who resides within the Commonwealth of Australia or who comes to reside in the Commonwealth of Australia is bound by the legal provisions as applicable. Therefore, I could not care less personally what kind of religion any person has or what their religious practices may be as long as they are within the confinements of Australian laws that are relevant. Anyone who practice any kind of religion or religious conduct or purported religious conduct or customs that are contrary to Australian laws (State and/or Federal) simply as like any other offender can be dealt with according to the RULE OF LAW. The problem is however that the Australian Federal Police, Social Security and others are ignoring this time and again!

Neither-the-Federal-Government-or-the-AFP-are-securing-our-safety,-to-the-contrary-are-part-of-the-cause-of-dangers-to-us-escalating! See my blog.

Mr G
I would like to answer that please
So in other words you agree that there should be one law for all in the same country.
Good. So Do I.
As far as putting animals before people goes Sir we need to learn it all goes together.
What we do to animals has a direct effect to us our kids and our health.
Lets take a look at bird flue for example.
Thats from chickens being kept in cages so small they can not sit lay down spread their wings turn etc.

This breeds diseases just the same as if it were people kept in those conditions.
It is the same with many other meat products we all eat such as pork and more and more intensive feedlot for cattle etc.

Of course Muslims do not eat pork but most others do.

All these animals are pumped with Anti B to TRY to curb the diseases.
The more they give them the more the virus becomes resistant.
The result being a super bug thats is caplable of wiping out millions.
So Mr G even if you dont have compassion for the most innocent- our animals- You need to know unless we put some common decency into our treatment of animals first.- There wont be any people.

The Federal Gov have just opended an enquiry into Halal Slaugher In Australias and the lack of stunning before slaughter.
They have my full support.
I hope they go one step further and STOP allowing them to be sent alive to have their throats cut without stunning overseas

“Also we need our Government to make one law for all” – that is what French and all pre- and following revolutions, PeopleALEIFarming, were for. And the rest of your post of 2 August is a hands-on further testimony to an Australian Dark Ages feudal style reality, where the particularly privileged inherit even a very right itself to be employed locally, no understanding of job to be done to frequently happen.

And TarynW., one must not be confused with playing English while speaking of marriages in Australia or wherever: as understood, PeopleALEIFarming suggestion is not anti-Muslim, but concerning the forbidding of second and further marriages under Shari or any other laws contradicting a common law of this country, as Mr G. opposes even civil unions between same sex partners, which is illogical from pure financial grounds sustaining a reproducing process called “marriage between man and woman” historically.

Of course, considering the cattle slaughtering is much visible demonstration of equal treatment and sharing concern of all subjects than rooting out discrimination between groups factually.

However, one should again be logical: if no second wife and same-sex unions allowed in this country, should religious rules prevail over scientifically-sustained treatment of animals?

A pity, no formatting of text and smiles allowed in this forum.

TyranW & MichaelK, as a “CONSTITUTIONALIST” I seek to avoid using my personal views in arguments. What I witnessed on the 60 Minutes program being done to cattle, etc is barbarous and utter deplorable at the very least and I would personally NOT condone this. My issue was however that TyranW was using the screen name as to refer to animals while coming across that she could care less in certain circumstances about the tragedy inflicted upon humans. That was the point I pursued to make. I do not approve of any animal cruelty and as such have made this clear but that did not relate to the constitutional issues I was pursuing. Don’t therefore assume something incorrectly. Also, my views about same sex relationships etc expressed was what is constitutionally applicable. While MichaelK may argue for economical reasons that it should be different, well if we are going to use that kind of argument then why have at all any court process in place and for economical reason just lock up people or perhaps execute them instanter as to save the government, so the taxpayers moneys? This kind of argument would be lunacy! Likewise so with any economical argument as to gay relationships. The reason so many referendums are failing is because the people decided so, that was the very set up of the Constitution. If the electors wanted to change the Constitution to facilitate for gay-marriage it would all along have been done. Likewise so with multiple-marriages by one person, if the electors really wanted it then they could have amended the Constitution.
The Federal Government cannot deal with religious issues but the States are free to do so. As a matter of fact it is unconstitutional for tax-deductions for donations to religious bodies an tax-exemptions for religious bodies, but nevertheless it is still being done and the taxpayers (including those non religious, are ending up having to make up for the shortfall.
I oppose discrimination but constitutionally we are permitted to discriminate! The-Commonwealth-is-built-on-racism!
And I understand the United-Nations in fact supported racism inregard of Aboriginals!