It has no connection to “farming”. Currently a number of Israeli observation posts sit on strategic hill tops in the area.

Hezbollah stated: “If they (Israelis) go from Shebaa, we will not stop fighting them.”

January 2005, the UN Security Council reasserted that the Lebanese claim to the Shebaa Farms area is “not compatible with Security Council resolutions” affirming that Israel completely WITHDREW from Lebanon.

The kidnapping of three Israeli soldiers was the catalyst - anti-Israeli activities occurred prior.

“Liberal Democracies ... the US Great Britian, Australia, Canada and New Zealand.”

Have you any idea how hard it is to get residency, let alone citizenship in these countries? Read the various immigration policies ... and conditions ... and quotas ...

Other countries are in line with those of the Middle East.

Germany brought Turks into their country as cheap labour to build post-war Germany. Third generation (German born) Turks have no citizenship, but remain classified as “guest workers”.

“I'd feel slighted if you'd in anyway suggest Australia doesn't provide security or a fair go for Jewish people living here”

We certainly don’t for illegal refugees - an oxymoron don’t you think?
We treat them appallingly. Mental cruelty (an unknown future) and physical cruelty is against all human rights. Let’s not forget the nine Afghanis returned home - executed on arrival.

How many others ...?

Gabriella Blum and Martha Minow, fierce civil libertarians, also Harvard law professors state that Israel (exposed daily to terrorist operations) operate with greater deference to human rights and standards than the USA or elsewhere. These laws apply to combatants such as Hezbolah, non-Palestinians and Gaza-Palestinians detained for terrorist activities.
(Unlawful Combatants Law passed by the Knesset , 2002).

Compare it with our illegal refugee policies.

Let’s not mention aborigines ... !

The world changing ...?

Germany was considered the most civilized country in the world - and look what it threw up ...

Then ... Pol Pot ... the Balkans ... Lebanon still .. Dafur, Iraq.

Iranians detest Hezbollah - a product of their regime ... Iranians warn of the resolute uncoiling of Iran with Russia.

Danielle

There is no such thing as an “illegal refugee”
QUOTE
We certainly don’t for illegal refugees - an oxymoron don’t you think?
END QUOTE

A PERSON IS A REFUGEE (IF THIS STATUS IS CLAIMED) UNLESS HELD NOT TO BE SO.

The appropriate way to establish a person to have entered illegally the Commonwealth of Australia, at least constitutionally, is to have the person formally charged with the relevant offence and then presented before a State court and be given a “judicial determination” to the status of the person to be a “refugee” or being a “person who unlawfully entered the Commonwealth of Australia and/or overstayed his visa permission”
Sure, this due process of law is being ignored, but for the records this is the only legal way to conduct matters.

As for the term “citizenship” it has a different meaning in the Commonwealth of Australia then for example in the USA. While the Commonwealth of Australia now purport to grand “citizenship” it is a political status nothing to do with “nationality”. Constitutionally only a State can grand a person “citizenship” (including franchise”) while the Commonwealth of Australia can only grand “naturalisation for and on behalf of the British Crown.

In The Netherlands for example, at least when I lived there, we didn’t talk about “citizenship” as such but simply as to “nationalitie (nationality) that if you were nationalised then you gained all political rights also.

In the Commonwealth of Australia, its racist Constitution by way of Subsection 51(xxvi) any person of a “coloured race” against which a special race legislation is enacted automatically looses “citizenship” (including franchise) this as to prevent such an “inferior race” as the Framers of the Constitution made known, to overturn a legislation against them. As such they loose “citizenship” but retain their naturalisation. And, constitutionally at least, Australians are “Subjects of the British Crown”, and the Constitution does not permit otherwise. Then again, the Federal Government (whatever political party is in power) could not care less.

You could always check out what I have published on my Yahoo blog;
http://au.360.yahoo.com/profile-ijpxwMQ4dbXm0BMADq1lv8AYHknTV_QH and/or my website http://WWW.SCHOREL-HLAVKA.CO

Danielle,

Let me point out your contradictions and errors.

While Israel has allowed the migration of Arab Muslims you mentioned a number but not a time period. You neither mentioned citizenship issues nor the 'Right of Return' of refugees.

Australia was among the first countries to allow the settlement of Vietnamese 'boat people'. Your denigrate Australia and it's immigration policy. Illegal refugees isn't an oxy-moron. International Law and the UN clearly hold a refugee must apply for refugee status in the first counrty they reach that provides safe haven. For all boat people refugees, Australia was a destination arrived at after transiting other countries...all had policies quite different from their departure points and allowed safe haven. It's Australia's policy to accept applications for refugee status from refugees in those states. To stop the flow of illegal immigrants assisted by the people smugglers we implemented the 'Pacific Solution'. We've worked closely with Indonesian to stop that flow. Both actions work. Australia still takes both per head of population more refugees that any other country.

But yet again you deflected my question. It was about Jewish people in Australia and you went off on an irrelevant tangent.

And what was your reference to Australia's Indigenous people all about? I 'd love to see your slant on that issue. Perhaps we'd exchange comparisons.

Only Israel who prevents the establishment of a secure and just Palestinian state. Eplain why Israel doesn't want Palestinian Muslims in Israel? Why does Palestine have to become a secular democratic state? That's for the Palestinians to decide not you Israeli's? You demanding of them what you want isn't what self-determination is about. We in the Liberal Democracies understand that.

A border dispute between Yemen and Saudi Arabia? Is it the result of a war, occupation and illegal settlement, like in Palestine? Why do you try to justify Israel's illegalities by pointing out the wrongs of others?

The security fence doesn't follow the Green line.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/fence.html

'In February 2005, the route was again modified to take into account the decision by the Israeli Supreme Court to take greater account of the impact of the fence on the Palestinians. The proposed route runs closer to the Green Line than the original plan approved in October 2003 ... This new route will include 7 percent of the West Bank on its “Israeli” side — as opposed to 16 percent in the original plan — and approximately 10,000 Palestinian residents.
One of the most controversial questions has been whether to build the fence around Ariel, a town of approximately 20,000 people, the second largest Jewish settlement in the territories. To incorporate Ariel, the fence would have to extend approximately 12 miles into the West Bank.'

Israel is stealling a further 7% of Palestine.
Why does Israel feel the need to discuss the necessity of surrounding an illegal settlement.

The infrustructure in Lebanon?: Bridges, Power Stations, Communications, TV stations, roads and most of South Beruit. Didn't you see the pictures on TV? They were what disgusted the rest of the world. And of course no mention of the cluster bombs deposited after the ceasefire and during that UN protected Israel flight.

Shabba Farms is uninhabited and has nothing to do with farming but unfortunately it belongs to Lebanon and one does ask why you are defending Israeli occuptation of that area?

Hezbollah is still a threat to Israel, an undefeated threat.

Most of us see that taking prisoners of soldiers isn't kidnapping. It's a prisoner of war thing.

'Germany was considered the most civilized country in the world - and look what it threw up ...'

We went to war to rid the world of the occupation and suppression the Nazis imposed on conquered people. Do you want us to do the same with any people who think they have a right to occupy and suppress by military means?

'Then ... Pol Pot ... the Balkans ... Lebanon still .. Dafur, Iraq.'

You left out a few including Israel and Palestine.

Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka,

Thank you, I will read your sites with great interest.

The Netherlands have proven themselves over and over again an extremely humane country.

Keith

The history of Australia and Jews (see my post of 18 June 2007); many were fighting with our allies at the time.

I make analogies with other countries so you can grasp certain concepts.

People who have a grandparent born in England or Ireland - but neither their parents, nor themselves, were born in either of these countries - have “Right of Return” to Britain or Ireland, if they can provide documentary proof of their grandparent’s birth. This gives them residency status - I doubt if it bestows citizenship/nationality.

In the case of Israel, Jews have “Right of Return”. I think that if they want to take up Israeli citizenship they have to apply.

In permitting Arab Muslims to return, they would have residency status unless they wished to take out citizenship - this would have been granted on the same conditions as other groups who wanted Israeli naturalization.

Naturalisation is a fraught issue in many countries. Some countries refuse to let you give up birth nationality to assume a new one. I imagine that most Arab states would not permit an Muslim Arab to adopt Israeli naturalisation.

My mother was Australian, I was born in France; she returned to Australia with me, a toddler. In my early teens I required a passport. The Australian government did not consider me Australian - thus refused a passport; I would have had no voting rights, or any benefits.

The French government refused my need to relinquish my French nationality - if I had been male and older, I would have been conscripted to serve in France’s national service. It was only after my stepfather, a high ranking British official, stepped in and trumpetted “jump”, the Australian government responding “how high” - that this issue was resolved. I received both my naturalisation papers and passport within two weeks.

I hate to think what refugees go through ...

Even today, people are stateless.

cont ...

“Israel is stealing a further 7% of Palestine”

Unless Israel annexes Palestine it does not own this area.

Re: extending fences ... read an analyse the context ...

The Hezbollah use human shields - illegal under international humanitarian law.
Hezbollah launched rockets from certain facilities, thus making them legitimate targets.

State which facilities ... don’t generalise.

Incidentally, IDF forewarned Lebanese areas and villages, such as Marwahin, to evacuate prior to threatened attack. One Lebanese, shown such a pamphlet by an Australian journalist, remarked that, being a non-combatant, it didn’t apply to him.

No country should employ cluster bombs, yet they are legal under international law. Most have them, including Australia. Only Belgium prohibits their use. After the Lebanese conflict, the IDF provided the UNIFIL and Lebanese government with detailed maps as to sites of these bombs so they could be removed.

Already stated: (translation) the UN and Security Council affirmed that whilst Israel had observation posts in Sabaa, it still conformed with the demands of Israel’s withdrawl from Lebanon.

However much you dislike the idea, the UN mandated establishment of Israel gave this country the right to defend itself. If Palestine had been allowed statehood by Arab States, it too would be celebrating its coming 60th anniversary.

Palestinians want an independent homeland - their own identity They don’t want to be ruled by other Arab states, nor Israel. Read the report and findings of the Riyadah Summit (March 2007)

EVERY country has its own identity. We should recognise, enjoy, and respect these. All countries have histories, language, culture, and policies which inform their identity; Israel, Arab, European, Asian - even Australia

If Israel wanted to put a stop to all their problems once and for all, don’t you think they could. Being ethical, they don’t.

Israel has made mistakes, and Israeli’s themselves are their harshest critics.

Read Arab, Iranian, and Israeli newspapers, works by their intellectuals; access their TV programs. Analyse ... evaluate ...

(SIGH) ... this assumes, of course ....

You're anti-semitic ... have “issues” with our aborigines ... can’t see our treatment of illegal immigrants as inhumane ...