Danielle

It is really interesting that you see criticism of your views as criticism of yourself.

Really quite telling. You need to get rid of your 'chip' . Now that's abuse.

And just to reveal the bias in your views ... again ... sigh.

Saudi's 'fence' is built on Saudi land, doesn't annex occupied territory or is intended to isolate themselves. But hey little facts like that don't matter do they?

I unlike yourself am truely liberal and democratic in my attitudes and my care for oppressed peoples anywhere is genuine. How can you call that into doubt? Do you have another agenda? Do you think Palestinians neither occupied nor oppressed or do they deserve their occupation and oppression? Do they bring it on themselves?

Tell me does giving warnings justify terrorist acts? Now that would be an nteresting piece of logic Dannielle...don't you think?

The Jewish National Council denounced the bombing. Does that excuse the terrorism? So what? The Palestinian Government denounced Suicide Bombing. Is that a parallel you have overlooked...again...sigh?

Israel has been called many things such as a "terrorist state" (fair enough), a "fascist state" (no, but maybe in the future), an apartheid state (given its history that claim has merits) or the "bludger state". Haven't heard that one? Check this out:

http://www.wrmea.com/us_aid_to_israel/index.htm

In Israel we have a country that receives enormous amounts of funding, most of it courtesy of the US taxpayer, much of it which doesn't need to be accounted for. Trying doing that in Australia or elsewhere if you're unemployed. Your payments wouldn't last too long.

It's an Australian tradition to bag out bludgers. So Danielle and other Zionists shouldn't think Israel is being singled out. There are plenty of other parasites in my crosshairs.

Part 1
The Bible was put together over centuries where some script were included and then deleted and other never made it as to reflect the views of those who put the bible together. Combined with that those who wrote articles had their own bias views and translation also had an influence in it they question then may be asked what are the true parts of the Bible?

The basic underlying message are, such as “Thou-shall-not-kill”, etc.

Well, Israelis are sending out gun-ships to kill Palestinians regardless if innocent bystanders are being killed. Palestinenians are likewise killing regardless innocent bystanders are being killed. The USA execute in many States prisoners and so there too we cannot find the religious message.
OK they invaded Iraq, bombed innocent children and others of this earth and Iraq back into stone age all seemingly justifiable because they argued the late President Saddam Hussein was a tyrant because torture was under his leadership and so he should be held personally accountable, yet now we discover that people are still tortured to death in their hundreds many times over, but no late president Saddam Hussein in power as to blame and no one is blaming the current Iraqi Government for this mass murder either! And, we find disabled children basically left to rot away on concrete floors and again the Government is not held accountable. Why is it that with the late President Saddam Hussein he was even held accountable for the WMD’s (oops they never existed) but OK he was supporting Bin laden and his bunch of terrorist (oops he didn’t that either) but all we seem to be able to do is to argue about religious protocol rather then to concentrate that fellow human beings are slaughtered ongoing and invading Iraq made out world less safer!

Why-should-God-be-willing-to-forgive-the-sins-of-humans if they themselves refuse to do so? When one of my (maternal) forefathers, Joseph the Lapenda Melhado ventured out into the world he created his own shipping empire by working for it, he did not go and rob others of their land.

Part 2

As a child my parents and grand parents and indeed other family members followed the doctrine that you must appreciate others their rights if you expect them to observe your rights. Their doctrine was also that all humans are equal, regardless of religion, race, colour. The same I have shown to my children and grandchildren. My paternal heritage has the family crest of St Michaels, the dragon slayer, and they too pursued that all people are equal.

Those who argue about certain statements of the Bible just may fail to understand the principle message, even so much argued that to forgive and to be tolerant is what it is really about.
Most religions will have something rotten in it, but just ignore that and go by the good parts!
The argument that Israelis provided certain conditions for Palestinians hardly can be an acceptable deed if they did so having first robbed them of their lands.
Your neighbour might be a better person to look after your animal (assuming you have a pet) but that does not mean the neighbour can simply rob you of your pet on that basis.
The British wrecked it all since the early 1900’s and still have not learned that it is beyond their ability to dictate their kind of JUSTICE and DEMOCRACY.
Indeed, the way Iraq might be ending it may be a lot worse then what was during the reign of the late President Saddam Hussein.
Already women are allowed to be stoned to death, hangings are permitted, and hardly this can reflect “Australian values” politicians so much argue about.
Religious zealots, of any religion, always will find ways to excuse their murderous conduct, and hence we are better to have religion for those who desire to practice but do not bother others about it.
Anyone who somehow seek to justify the robbing of rights and freedoms of others in my view fail to understand the real teaching of the Bible!

Do not onto others you do not desire others to do onto you!

Fellow_Human,

You are correct:

Theodore Hertzel’s vision was of a secular, national Jewish homeland, the final straw being the Dreyfus Affair. Palestine was certainly not the first choice. The British agreed in principle to a Jewish settlement in East Africa.

Late 19th century witnessed the rise of religious and racist anti-semitism and attendent pogroms in Russia and Eastern Europe, Jews immigrated to Palestine.

Simultaneously, a wave of Jews, unaware of Hertzel’s political Zionism, immigrated to Palestine from Yemen, Morocco, Iraq and Turkey. Jews always had a noteable presence in the Middle East. They were motivated by the proufoundly, religious, centuries-old dream of “Return to Zion”.

The Seventh Zionist Congress,1905, rejected Hertzel’s program.

Yet, Emir Faisal, leader of the Arab nationalist movement signed the Weizmann-Faisal Agreement with Zionist leaders during the 1919 Paris Peace Conference, acknowledging: “racial kinship and ancient bonds existing between the Arabs and Jewish people “ ... concluding ... “the surest means of working out the consummation of their national aspirations is through the closest possible collaboration in the development of the Arab States and Palestine”. He called for rapid and large scale Jewish immigration and settlement in Palestine. This Agreement was congruent on the fulfillment of British wartime promises of independence to the Arabs ... which were not kept. An absolute, terrible tragedy.

Faisal saw the Zionist movement a companion to the Arab nationalist movement in fighting imperialism. In a letter to Harvard law professor, later Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter, on March 3, 1919, Faisal wrote “... there is room in Syria for us both. Indeed, I think that neither can be a real success without the other.”

Colonial powers have no interest in subject countries, other than to self-serving imperialism. Correspondence between Lawrence and Whitehall, regarding the Hashomite family demonstrates clearly “treaties and promises are made to be broken”.

If in 1948, Arab States and Britain had accepted the two-state solution, Palestine would be enjoying its coming 60th anniversary.

Now the Arab League calls on both Hamas and Hezbollah to recognise Israel’s right to exist..

Yasser Arafat, a charamatic leader, betrayed the Palestinians.

cont ...

He was brilliant military and political strategist, yet kept his people in a parlous condition - useful for attracting massive aid and maintaining rage against Israel.

Arafat used this aid for arms, patronage and for lining his pockets . Investigation of Arafat’s finances revealed a secret investment folio valued $US 1 billion, an estimated further $US 0.8 billion in Swiss bank accounts. Sura, Arafat’s widow receives $US 100,000 per month from the PA. Tracfin found further untaxed transfers of $US 1.27 million each regularly going to her Paris accounts.

Anger and disallusionment followed revelation of Arafat’s embezzlement. A Palestinian in Gaza made the ironic, but accurate, comment that if it hadn’t been for Israel and the West’s insistance on democratic elections, Hamas wouldn’t have been elected.

With both leaders in accord, the Riymah summitt created expectations of peace and a Palestinian state. However, unlike secular Fatah, radical, extremist Hamas, swearing Sharia law to every household, refuses Israel’s right to exist. Peace is imperative...

Palestinians have it tough; they must have an independent homeland. The distance between Gaza and the West Bank seems a geo-political nightmare. Egypt could resume control, and in good will, Jordon provide compensatory land to the West Bank. Israel is minuscule compared to its neighbours.

Palestinians should draw up an infrastructure, a blueprint for their coming statehood, with Israeli expertise contributing. Health, education, cultural identity, technology and business investment being priorities.

Regarding Israel’s Law of Return, it grants citizenship to Jews, whatever race or nationality, including dark-skinned Ethiopians, Yeminis, and Indians; and whether secular, atheists, or religious;

Non-Jews are eligible as naturalised citizens, just as migrants are in Australia.

Israel’s population: 7 million

76% Jews;
20% Arab;
4% Druze, Baha’is, Circassians, and other ethnic groups.

Israel, a secular country, celebrates Jewish festivals; we celebrate Christian ...

Zionism is democratic, non-discriminatory, ensuring religious protection and political rights of non-Jews alike. Israel was the first country to offer Bosnian Muslims citizenship.

History has repeatedly demonstrated the Jews need security - a Jewish homeland.

In 1968, Martin Luther observed:

“When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You’re talking anti-Semitism."

Peace