Fellow_Human,

I don’t know the details of IDF weapons used other than what you have told me - I believe you. I don’t know what alternative weaponary the Israelis had.

Hezbollah deliberately placed their artillery among highly populated civilian areas fully aware of the casualities that would occur. Undoubtedly, many civilians were forced to remain at gun point. In addition, Hezbollah’s weaponary was so mobile that they very quickly would have been able to evacuate areas, leaving citizens to suffer the consequences. Lebanese reported that Hezbollah had arsenals under schools and hospitals.

The Hezbollah’s use of civilian shields, with subsquent deaths and casualties, was also used as a cynical anti-Israel PR exercise. As indeed were the photographs released, which amateur photographers identified as having been doctored with photo-shop. Reuters went into convulsions trying to kill, recall and retract these - yet many got out. It is undeniable that Hezbollah exploited journalists whom they allowed into “certain” areas.

Hezbollah used the Katyusha (122 mm) rocket, having a payload of 20 kg, and a range of 30 km. At full salvo it can deliver 40 rounds in 20 seconds; 10 launchers can deliver 400 rounds in one volley; the exit tubes can be spun, thus their accuracy is reasonably efficient. Importantly, the launcher is also extremely mobile, with an emplacement time of 3 min; a displacement time of 2 min, with a maximum road speed of 75 km an hour.

In 2006, Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallay unveiled Khaibar-1 (333 mm) on Hezbollah’s Al-Manar TV station. A remarkable weapon.

Khaibar-1A, a further generational and greatly improved Katyusha, was also deployed in the Hezbollah/Israeli conflict. The Khaibar-1 (333 mm) had a 75-80 km range, a payload of 100 kg explosives. It pounded Alufa, Beit Shean 70 km south of Lebanon, Hadera, and Haifa (Israel’s third largest city).

I agree with you about ground combat between the Hezbollah and the Israelis. I have also stated what I believed the consequences would have been.

But, would have hand-to-hand combat been logistically possible?

cont...

Lebanon’s own leader thought it impossible to take on Hezbollah this way.

I further believe that the Hezbollah would have taken Lebanese hostages. For every Hezbollah killed, a significant number of Lebanese innocents would have been killed.

Hardly new; this strategy was used by the nazis - even in Denmark. A Danish woman told me what she saw from her apartment overlooking a square. Whenever some infringement against nazi “rule” was made, the nazis would round up citizens (from children to old men), crowd them into the square and shoot them. Even tearing down of a nazi poster could result in this.

We must never forget that nazis emerged from what was considered the most civilized country in Europe. The West has taught well the Middle East all our own sins.

No terrorist group is naive; they are highly sophisticated and unconscionable. Undoubtedly the Hezbollah had plans A, B, C ... if things didn’t go as they intended.

Fellow-Human

I agree with you. None of this excuses the death of one Lebanese civilian.

One’s heart goes out to the Lebanese. Joseph Farah (cited above) wrote so eloquently about his “beloved Lebanon” ... they suffer still ...

Many Arab intellectuals (also Iranian), support the ideas of Egyptian writer, Nonie Darwish, who stated on Al-Arabiya TV on March 23, last:

“We should begin to view the Palestinian Arab cause in a different manner. For 58 yeas we have been fighting Israel... Enough, we must resolve this problem, because it hinders the progess of the Arab peoples ... we must be just and grant them security. There are five million of them, and we are 1.2 [billion] Muslims. What are we afraid of - five million Jews? We must welcome them so they can live in our midst ... we must stop the terrorism in Israel, and we must not encourage Hamas to say it wants to annihilate Israel. Ahmadinejad is not even an Arab - what does he have to do with Israel? Is he acting this way in order to unify his people?”

Peace as always ...

The Arab nations have put forward a peace proposal. All it requires to guarantee Israel security and peace is for Isreal to grant the right of return for refugee Palestinians and for Israel to return to the pre '67 war borders. The greenline.

All the evidence shows Israel chokes the opportunity for it's own peace and security while it refuses to recognise the legitimate claims of the people it suppresses and who's land it steals and occupies.

Anything thing else is mere weasel words and lying propaganda.

Keith,

I am not an Israeli, nor have been there. I am interested in Middle Eastern politics for many reasons, not the least from what I learnt from British Colonial Officers and also about British policies

Happily, I thought you weren’t going to respond.

You’re abysmally ignorant about the Middle East. Your information comes from local TV and newspapers. Or, perhaps you belong to some unsavoury group who are both anti-semite and anti-black.

Some months ago ...

Rashid Khalidi, director of the Middle East Institute stated:

“How many “peace activists” are responsible for the rise of this (Palestinian) incorrigibly violent culture? Not only are they unapologetic, but they are trying to expand on their achievement and give them a “state.” Factional fighting , political bickering and a failure to establish law and order have turned Gaza into a symbol of Palestinian shame and are pushing the Palestinian national movement toward collapse. “

Khalidi also quoted a prominent Palestinian intellectual:

“It is time that Palestinian leaders looked at their own weaknesses instead of blaming everything on Zionism, imperialism, and other outside forces.”

Raji Sourani, director of the Palestinian Center for Human Rights in Gaza, said:

“officials with the mind-set of a banana republic are causing tremendous damage to the Palestinian cause.”

A Palestinian academic damning Palestinian violence (which occurred some months ago) stated:

“There is a kind of conspiracy not to punish the criminals. Hundreds were killed in the recent struggle between Fatah and Hamas ... Who will punish those who gave the orders? Who will punish those who committed [the crimes]? Who will punish the people who remained silent?”

Regarding Palestinian Authority leadership, he continued:

“The prime minister and many of his ministers and security apparatuses are the ones who eased and facilitated ... the killing of hundreds of Palestinians ... who will punish those who caused the killing of these children, these women, these men? ... this is a political crime at the highest level.”

I could continue on ...

During these tumultuous events, the only news received here was the kidnapping of a British journalist ...

cont ...

An overseas visitor, here 6 months, is appalled at the quality of our news.

He observed we don’t seem to know much - really anything - even about our own government and its policies; and we care even less - unless it hits our hip pocket ... Our Current Affairs programs - barnies between neighbours!

Colleagues have said Australia needs to fight a war on its own soil to get an idea of international realities.

On average, we’re immature, naive, gullible, determinedly uninformed ... Deeply, Deeply Suspicious of Higher Education .. tinny-in-hand-experts; loud-mouthed “know nothing”. And proud of it.

Whilst liking “some” international food, we’re xenophobic, racist. We refuse to learn about others’ cultures, beliefs, languages or writing systems.
As long as we know where to get the best take-away chop-suey, we're a bloody tolerant country.

...let’s not mention refugees or our indigenous peoples ...

As Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka lucidly explained, racism is imbedded in our Constitution.

You hate the idea of a Palestinian modern, independent state ... Clearly they want one. Re-read their comments - however hard, try and understand. Palestinians don’t want to live in Israel -they want their own country. After-all it is only a short bus trip into Israel, right next door ... even a nice stroll.

Keith, as an expert, send your protest against a Palestinian state to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas of the Palestinian Authority. He is not Hamas. Remember (as a courtesy) he is Fatah ... he can read English.

In 1967, 565,904 refugees lived in the West Bank. How many of the original 565,904 are still alive, and/or not living in Israel?

In Israel, Palestinian residents (if they should decline Israeli citizenship) have legal permanent residency.

PCBS (2006) report 2.5 million Palestines live in the West Bank.

Understandably, there’s a reluctance to award citizenship to great numbers of a potentially hostile population whose allies are sworn to the destruction of Israel.

Israeli Arabs volunteer for national service. The first few months of 2007 alone, saw a doubling of volunteers from those of 2006. Is the subtext apparent?

Oh Danielle, that's so harsh telling us of our shockingly poor access to news reporting.

Unfortunately it is very, very true. Anybody who can speak and read a language other than English and has access to other news sources knows this to be true.

Not only that, there is a real resistance to the teaching of modern global history here in school. I won't even mention philosophy and/or political science. Those are almost dirty words. Very few Aussies would know and understand their own constitution and the relevance to our laws and governments. Gerrit has been trying to get Australians interested for a while now.

Having been educated outside of Australia I made some presumptions and made my sons do history in High School. It was abysmal. And there is no opportunity to learn about Australian politics/government, something which should be compulsory, seeing voting is.

Consequently, I find many Australians easily manipulated into a particular direction. Intellectual debate is almost non-existent. It is generally simplified into a left vs right stance.

Sorry for having gone off topic. Lately I've just been enjoying some excellent debate between Danielle, Fellow Human and Logic on this thread and another.