Like the astounding Ms Ali, Chris Hitchens is no doubt not exactly a favourite of Mr Barns either but nevertheless the inimitable Mr Hitchens makes a sensational case (as usual) against denialists and defeatists like him:

http://www.zombietime.com/hitchens-hedges_debate/

The point is always the same from Ali to Hitchens to Shoeblatt, Islam needs to reform and expunge its old-fashioned or primitive elements once and for all.

Terrorists gave both Islam and Muslims a terrible terrible name after 9/11 so it is up to them alone to fix their destroyed reputation. Lip service and dangerous sophistry by the likes of Tariq Ramadan for example will simply not do. Telling the truth will.

“Judaism maintained their rights until today. Muslims maintained and protected synaguogues (sic) and churches throught (sic) history.”

Fellow_Human

You appear not to be acquainted with Arab history. Yes, there were times when Jews were welcome, but many times when they weren’t. Just a glance at modern Arab history. In the 1940’s, being Jewish was outlawed in a number of Arab states. When these laws were introduced, 800,000 Jews were not only expelled from their homes, but also dispossessed of everything they owned, both personal and community: businesses, synagogues, hospitals, and schools. As for Islam accepting Christians, look at the 2nd Sudanese War ... look at Darfur at present. Apart from Islam’s issues with Judaism and Christianity, look at the last sixty years with the horrendous bloodbaths of Muslim killing Muslim both between, and within, Arab States.

BOAS_David,

Now you really want me to date myself. I lived In Malaysia (then called Malaya) for seven years leaving in 1960.

When I was there, no local women did. In daytime, Chinese women, wore a cotton jacket over long pants. Wealthy women wore the form-fitting cheongsum split on each side, sometimes going as high as the upper thigh for evening wear. In those days I even had the figure and looks to wear it myself ...

I travelled round the entire coast of Malaysia from Koto Bharu on the east to Langkawi on the west, and lived in all western states from Johore to Perak, finally on Penang where I worked very happily and closely with co-workers of different religions and races. Confidences were shared, all festivals celebrated together.

However, I wonder how the indigenous Malays are fareing now. They are a distinct race from the “typical” Malay. When I was there they were were animists, not Muslims. They lived in kampongs, away from average communities. My feeling was that they were looked down upon.

“Judaism maintained their rights until today. Muslims maintained and protected synaguogues (sic) and churches throught (sic) history.”

Fellow_Human

You appear not to be acquainted with Arab history. Yes, there were times when Jews were welcome, but many times when they weren’t. Just a glance at modern Arab history. In the 1940’s, being Jewish was outlawed in a number of Arab states. When these laws were introduced, 800,000 Jews were not only expelled from their homes, but also dispossessed of everything they owned, both personal and community: businesses, synagogues, hospitals, and schools. As for Islam accepting Christians, look at the 2nd Sudanese War ... look at Darfur at present. Apart from Islam’s issues with Judaism and Christianity, look at the last sixty years with the horrendous bloodbaths of Muslim killing Muslim both between, and within, Arab States.

BOAS_David,

Now you really want me to date myself. I lived In Malaysia (then called Malaya) for seven years leaving in 1960.

When I was there, no local women did wear western dress. In daytime, Chinese women, wore a cotton jacket over long pants. Wealthy women wore the form-fitting cheongsum split on each side, sometimes going as high as the upper thigh for evening wear. In those days I even had the figure and looks to wear it myself ...

I travelled round the entire coast of Malaysia from Koto Bharu on the east to Langkawi on the west, and lived in all western states from Johore to Perak, finally on Penang where I worked very happily and closely with co-workers of different religions and races. Confidences were shared, all festivals celebrated together.

However, I wonder how the indigenous Malays are fareing now. They are a distinct race from the “typical” Malay. When I was there they were were animists, not Muslims. They lived in kampongs, away from average communities. My feeling was that they were looked down upon.

I have just finished listening to the unedited interview I had with Hirsi Ali yesterday. And I am pleased to say that she says thre things with which I thoroughly agree.

1. That people who want to teach creation science in schools should be thrown in jail.

2. That abortion should be made available to women who need it.

3. That Christian conservatives should stop trying to impose their agenda on liberal democracies.

I now look forward to B_D and others here to join me in congratulating Hirsi Ali for holding sensible views on these issues. Go on, Boaz. Admit that your beliefs on abortion and creation science are a danger to liberal democracy.

Now you are being stupid Irfan.

Surely you don't agree that creation "scientists" should be thrown in gaol! I don't think that Hirsi Ali does either. What was the context of her comment?

Yes, I agree that women should have ready access to legal abortions. It's safer than using a coat-hanger in someones 'backyard'.

As an secular humanist I believe that all three monotheisms are fundamentally divisive as evidenced by your cheap shot at Boaz which was immature and stank of the usual religious tribalism.

Everyone who lives outside the closed circle of monotheism knows that the political force of Islam is just as destructive as Christianity. In fact, NEITHER are desirable and deserve to be held in shackles by a more humane liberal democracy.

(Note: Can someone put Cardinal Pell AND Sheik Hilaly in the corner with their dunces caps on for being intrinsically stupid. Also, can their Bibles and Korans also be confiscated as they're obviously of little use in teaching good behaviour)

This article must count as one of the most asinine ever reproduced on Online Opinion. Only a cultural relativist of the most dhimwitted kind could come up with such rubbish.

What is perhaps most absurd is that Barns praises Islam for very definitely having "a strong liberal and progressive tradition" within it (but where exactly is this tradition being carried on today Greg?), whilst at the same time demonising both Christianity and Judaism for all manner of ills. In fact his own words need to be turned against him: "But by emphasising only the bad and ugly in Christianity and Judaism, Greg Barns feeds prejudice and division".

Barns then goes on to say that Ali "makes life more difficult for Muslims wherever she goes", without providing a shred of evidence. Have there been burning mosques left in her wake, Greg? Absolutely not.

It is clearly evident from this writing that Barns has joined the illiberal left, whose only desire is to silence any opinions that conflict with their own and in this way he is just as bad as the ABC-hating John Howard that he also rails against.