SARAH101... you make an intersting point about Unions seeking better conditions. While that's fine...within a CLOSED economic system. i.e. If the only people making the widgit are you and the company you work for, as soon as you have 'competition' from within your country or outside, the race is on to reduce costs ...or..DIE. Its that simple.

So, I'm all for improved conditions but PROVIDED that the Union side can see the numbers and the economic wider picture of what might happen if they go tooooo far. (Union officials keep their jobs even when those they represent go hungry due to loss of jobs, but the get ELECTED based on often unsustainable and immoral promises..Dean Mighell)

F.H. you can trot out your mantra of me 'misrepresenting' Islam but you forget your readers have brains :)
You made the claim that chapter 9 was during a time of war.

RESPONSE. I have pointed out many times that the basis for the call of "Allah's curse be on them/May Allah destroy them" was not prefixed with or suffixed with "Because_they_are_attacking_us- or broken some treaty" no..it is "because they believe Christ is the Son of God"..
Now even a policeman on the beat can see that, and if a judge was considering 'motive' he would see the actual text, not your off-beat interpretation of it.

You see.. sound interpretation is one which connects with the facts :)

Fact 1 "Christians believe Christ is Son of God"
Fact 2 "May Allah destroy them"(because of that)

CONCLUSION "Christians are to be destroyed because they believe Christ is the Son of God"
Any other conclusion is 2+2=6 or.. 'spin'.

Its not hard to extend this furher to.."IMPLICATIONS"

IE. if... Allah has specifically cursed and designated a particular people 2b destroyed, who are we to argue? Further..If Allah wishes to destroy them, and we are Allahs soldiers/Army/Followers, it stands to simple reason that we must be the instruments of that destruction.
The only question is 'what form' should that destruction take?
1/ Genocide ?
2/ Subjugation and Taxation?

I don't like EITHER.

Boaz,

Either you don't understand Islam at all or you are misrepresenting it. Lets see:

First: Living together:
The Quran respects people of the book, their rights to live in peace, their rights to practice and worship. The Islamic history "Walked the talk" and hence throughout Islamic history Christianity, Judaism maintained their rights until today. Muslims maintained and protected synaguogues and churches throught history. Do you deny the prophet Mohammed hadith “he who harms a follower of the book (ie Christian, jew or Sabean), I am his enemy on judgement day”?

Second: the Theology:
The Quran disagrees with Judaism on the nature of the chosen people in the sense that we believe they were chosen ‘to teach the message’ of monotheism and commandments. When they didn’t God sent Jesus to spread the teachings. When he was killed (or not) God sent Mohammed. For us, it’s a simple story board that makes sense. Islam is clear on monotheism and equality hence there is no room for a favourite people or relatives/ human nature to God and we make no apology of oiur theology.
That the Islamic differences. Regardless, according to Islam only God judges who is a believer and who isn’t which becomes a matter of individual conscience for the afterlife.

Ironic quote re the Genocide: genocide was committed by people of your faith against Jews (holocaust), Muslims (throught history since the crusades) and non-christians in general (Rwanda 800,000 killed in 10 days) and the neocons with a finger on the button of 20,000 nukes.
You are right we should be scared but from your mob.

Peace,

PART I BY White Warlock.

Dear Greg Barns and anyone who thinks that his post his okay,

you are a racist bigot who thinks that white westerners are so superior that all other cultures are like down-syndrome or something in comparison. This is revealed in the way you think it acceptable to not treat them as equals, whether that involves attacking bigotry or racism or religious intolerance within their communities, or talking about the REAL problem of kids who are brought up by their parents to hate "others" sooo much that they think that being involved in violent crimes, rapes, drug dealing, stealing cars or sucking dry the dole, medicare and even the Smith family (and other charities) are all okay when done to the "other" who they see as proper garbage.

But even if we just stick to issue of dealing with racism and other intolerance within any non-white community, the way that you slip over, Freudian style, double back, lie, be hypocritical, all proves that you are indeed fully aware of the massive problem with bigotry and religious (amongst other types) intolerance within, in particular, the Muslim community here in Australia and everywhere else.

How do you reconcile the fact that you can so easily attack in the western/white community anyone who shows any sign of racsim, mysoginy, homophobia, religious intolerance, etc., without being concerned that you may offend or "generalize" about all white people, when in the next breath you protect the same bigotry and bigots in non-white communities (mostly Muslims) who spew out vile filth a billion times more potent than anything that even comes out of the KKK or Neo-Nazis. And that is not exaggerating. Hilaly Feiz actually basically incited gang rape and said that the victims should be in prison. Time and time again their community in general has supported such people, who have said vile racist things over and over again.

Forums for dialogue have revealed that the average Mulsim in this country think that those such as Sheik Omran from Melbourne (who says that Bin Laden is a good man and that suicide bombing over poverty is acceptable in Australia - he by the way has a subscription of over 10,000 to his newsletter); Wasim Duherei from Hizb-ut-tahrir (who constantly says that the is against democracy and the west and that it is the job of all muslims to bring about the barabaric sharia); Keysar Trad who has called us all convict scum and said that Gays should be stoned to death (UWS in 2002 with Hanah Durabi and Sheik Shadi); Sheik Yasin, the negro American convert who accuses the church of giving aids to Africa, aand who says that non-muslims cannot be their friends, and that they are "dirt".

Fellow human,

Theology according to whom? Mohammad's Qur'an? Sorry unaccepted evidence. (One man's word won't stand in court)

Israel has always been and still is God's chosen people. Too bad if this doesn't agree with your book of revised history.

The Midle-East was majority Christian before the Islamic invasion post Mohammad military career.

If it wasn't for the Crusades, the world would have been all Islamic by now and we would still be riding camels and horses.

Genocide? Intolerance? Just remember I lived there too. And I am not Coptic as you once eluded.

If you dont like what Ali says, why not try another author instead?

Below is just 1 snippet chosen arbitrarily from a Pakistani paper today. We welcome people like Ali because its obvious to Blind Freddie how Islam and its supporters around the world are steadily marching backwards to the future.

".. even rapists have ended up invoking the holy Quran to protect themselves. The victim of a recent gang rape told police that she “ took oath on the holy Quran ...to remain tight-lipped about the matter” because her rapists had threatened to kill her unless she did so."

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\06\06\story_6-6-2007_pg3_3

______________________

Ayaan Hirsi Ali.. you are on song, go Grrl..!!