What is “such a pity” “I have to say”, VK3AUU? I do say what I feel right to say here.

My posts target willing to communicate, and understanding is a mutual process. On these pages or in the Middle East surely.

GRN... you and I can form a club .. its name ? 'REALITY CHECK' club..

You are pointing to the same thing I am... and I underline your point...

it is NOT about 'nuanced borders' it is about DESTRUCTION of Israel as far as HAMAS is concerned.

Not just 'destruction' but REPLACEMENT with an Islamic state.

which of course is based on the THEOLOGICAL issue of 'Islamic Waqf' or.."Muslim Lands" taken by conquest.
They took it by conquest, taxed the Christian arabs into Islamic submission ( The Jizya for the Jews of Khaibar was 50% of their gross income and they lost ALL their property rights) and now....when some Jews come along and with the unspoken words 'YES.. WE DO REMEMBER KHAIBAR' in their minds, the formerly conquering, now conquered Muslims whine !

Well, like most competitive things in life you have to take the wins and the losses.

There are 2 competing theological views of the land.. Orthodox Jew and Islamic. They are the extremes. They are always plotting to run the agenda.

GRN, getting these points through the likes of Keith and company is like getting blood out of a stone.. or perhaps into one.

But please keep mentioning them mate.. it might dawn on them one day.

David

You really should inform people of you 'final solution' ideas before inviting them to join your 'supremist' club.

This main thesis is much better than some in the ME previously, but it is becoming obvious that religious points of view should be toned down especially as the Middle East political problem has become more one of power balance, much more in the realms of logic rather than religion.

The thought came to mind when one of contributors said that Iran should be banned because it followed Sharia Law, including stoning of women.

A stronger belief in secular laws, means that our United Nations should have its sights more on Israel which as well as an arsenal of nuclear rockets eternally pointed at Iran, also has a fleet of US supplied fighter bombers with strafer 50 calibres fitted in the wings.

Religion gives voice again with George Dubya terming Iran evil, though Iran even as Persia has not attacked a neighbouring country in the last one thousand years.

Not so with America, which along with Britain invaded and occupied Iran in the early 1950s breaking the new anti-colonial code, and planting in the pupper Shah. It was said to be on the pretext that Iran had gone Communist, with the usual American untruth so evident when BP and Texas Oil quickly arrived behind.

A few years later the Ayotollah arrived back in Iran, soon having the American Embassy staff arrested to hold them for almost a year.

Not satisfied, an angry US backed Saddam and his Iraqis when he attacked Iran in 1982, the war finally won by Iran, despite Donald Rumsfeld giving advice, including on the use of killer chemicals.

As our ME historians might say, not a very nice Middle East history so far, and it has got even worse with the illegal preeemptive attack on Iraq by America and her Anglophile allies Britain and Australia.

Finally, though most historians are more philosophical than religous, they might dare to wonder if there was a fair-minded God up there what side he would take - or maybe let Socrates have his say - with his Out with the Gods and in with the Good.

Dear Keith.. I think I've done enough posts for people to gain an inkling of my 'final solution' already, but for those who have not yet tweaked to it, I'll repeat it. (thanx for the invite)

BACKGROUND.
Prior to outlining yet again a possible 'final' solution, lets just re-cap. My last post b4 this one was underlining a point made by myself repeatedly and by GRN independantly but MOST of all, made by HAMAS itself. That they,(HAMAS) see only ONE future vision of Palestine and it does NOT include Israel. Isreal does not exist in their minds.

SOLUTION. (yet again)

The most rabid anti Israel sentiment exists in the large Palestinian refugee camps, and from these come most of the homicide bombers I understand. Also, Islamic Jihad and the militants have most of their support and or originate in them. They are those who feel they have "lost" more than other palestinians who have not actually been displaced by the establishment of Israel.

PARTIAL ETHNIC CLEANSING.

If the problem will not fix itself, it must be fixed by outside forces. Remove all Palestinians from the major refugee camps, resettle them in small numbers around the world or in more remote Arab countries with appropriate compensation, including assistance for a period of time which will enable them to gain a socio/cultural/economic foothold in their new homes in countries away from Israel.

It seems to me that this is the most compassionate solution out of a number of ugly choices. It will never solve the 'sentimental' aspect, the sense of connection with Jerusalem or the mosques but this must be broken by Geography and generations to avoid on-going (eternal?) competition for the same spiritual and geographical reference points that currently fuel the war.

In my original list of possibilities, I did include 'Remove all Israelis' as one option to solve the problem. But given their military and economic clout, and alliance with the USA this is most unlikely to ever happen. I have theological reasons why I prefer this not to happen anyway. (that is a disclosure of interest)

"(HAMAS) see only ONE future vision of Palestine and it does NOT include Israel. Isreal does not exist in their minds"(by David) -

can one quarrel with?

Let's differentiate theoretical possibilities for a region called Palestine and reality of Israel already existing and the PA in final stage of formation.