Irfan,
Yes it is good evidence. There is not much better than personal experience. My female staff never actually refused to serve Lebs, but they did not enjoy the rude manner of them, so if we were around my partner or myself would serve the Lebs as they were not as rude to males.

Gee, it did not take you long to start throwing around accusations of racism. I am dissapointed in you. I thought you were better than that. You accuse me of racism because i critize Leb muslims. Should I simply accept their offensive behaviour and not say anything. I said before that appeasement seems to be taken as weakness. This leads me to answer your questions about my attitude towards Leb and muslims.

I do not hate or dislike anyone because of who they are. As I also said before I have not seen or heard of bad reports about Non muslim Lebanese so see no problem with them. I am also sure there are some good Leb muslims as well. I also have not heard many bad reports about muslims of other nationalities, just a few in Aus and there fore see not much problems there. But note that muslims of other nationalities seem to cause problems overseas. I told you recently that if they all had the theology that you were taught there would be no problems at all.

As I also said before, it is the attitude to females, their arrogance and the use of violence that leads to my conclusion that the Leb muslims are not suited to our society. The problem appears to be cultural as the children, from a very early age, have a poor attitude to females and non Lebs in general. School teachers and others that encounter Lebs in their daily work say similar things.
Lebs cannot or will not integrate and hold racist views about other nationaliites. Even after the 2nd or 3rd generation of being here.

Banjo: "Gee, it did not take you long to start throwing around accusations of racism"

Well, golly gee, I can't imagine why Irfan might have thought this sustained and personal attack on him from Banjo and the other usual suspects might have some racist basis.

I mean, Banjo's "Leb" this and "Leb" that emanates from a perspective of mutual respect, equality and consideration, doesn't it?

CJ Morgan, "I mean, Banjo's "Leb" this and "Leb" that emanates from a perspective of mutual respect, equality and consideration, doesn't it?"

Pehaps it doesn't emanate from Banjo. It may well be his communities cultural reality. You would need to poll the others of that same community before you were free to bandy about words like racism. His community may be home to a Lebanese Muslim gang. Just because Irfan says none exist doesn't mean none exist. Irfan is very quick to discount Banjo's personal experience and even mock him in defence of Islam.
I've yet to see Irfan offer understanding of what others are going through while always demanding that everyone accept his excuses for "Muslim misunderstandings and misconceptions". Irfan always puts the onus on "Australians" the burden of proof, and for them to extend their understanding to Islam and Muslims.

aqvarius writes: "I've yet to see Irfan offer understanding of what others are going through while always demanding that everyone accept his excuses for "Muslim misunderstandings and misconceptions". Irfan always puts the onus on "Australians" the burden of proof, and for them to extend their understanding to Islam and Muslims."

=> The implication here is that I require a burden of proof to be placed on Australians. As if I am not Australian. This is complete nonsense.

=> There is a further implication here that Islam as a theology and set of values is necessarily reflected in what persons calling themselves Muslims do. Therefore, I defend Islam by defending Muslims.

=> The second imputation is easily refuted by reading previous articles posted on the OLO website. Where have I defended the indefensible? Where have I defended Hilaly? Where have I defended idiotic Muslims protesting against a dozen cartoons or against the Pope's somewhat benign statements?

=> What I am suggesting is common sense. The idea that entire groups can be judged by the bad apples amongst them is a sheer nonsense. I don't judge all people with white skin by the fools who met at Cronulla. Nor do I judge all persons of Middle Eastern appearance by the thugs that carried out reprisal attacks after the riot.

=> The simple fact is that group responsibility makes no sense. The only people to whom it does make sense are those who are inclined to bigotry and racism. There are people here who are so inclined. I have tried to engage with them here on a rational basis. However, it has proven impossible because they are determined to hate.

Irfy
"group responsiblity makes no sense"... absolutely right.

I don't actually see that accusation "All Muslims are this or that" in the posts. I do see some personal experiences which are intended to point to gangs, or small groups, though Carniflex tends to generalize more than most.

I hope you have 'got' it by now that my own quarrel is not with "Muslims" (who are largely ignorant of many of their own traditions) but with Islam as a faith idea.

Scrutiny and criticism of my own faith is always welcome. West and Alchemist do not scrutinize and criticise they just rant.

Muslims are as much 'captive' to their imams as Roman Catholics are to the Pope or their bishop, and perhaps to a lesser extent Anglicans to their own higher beaurocratic church structure. But the main link among Muslims seems to be the culture and language as you would have observed in the various factional struggles over Hillali and control of the various mosques.

At my gym there is a 'mohammed' and a 'bobby' (both of whom are Iranian) There was even a 'Saidi' but he hasn't been around for some time. Don't think my vigorous polemics here translate into anti social behavior or attitudes against Muslims in general.

On the other hand, at a kickboxing tournament (won by a valliant Russian) last Sunday there was a crew from "[Name withheld] Full Force Kickboxing" who had all the trappings of "Leb Thugs" and they had the word "SOLDIER" on their backs, and a very mean look.
Zeky Mallah (accused of terrorism, but released/acquitted) in Sydney produced a video where he refers to incarcerated Muslims such as Bassam Hamzy (Murder/14yrs Supermax) and others as 'Soldiers' of Allah. Bassam Hamzy has supposedly 'reverted' a number of other prisoners to 'Islam'.. but one wonders, which version ?

Considering others convicted of terrorism are mentioned sympathetically by Mallah, at the very least, such things are worthy of monitoring.

Irfan, if your Australian them why the prevarication. Why not simply discuss the issues presented by those who have whatever experience and recognize it as an Australian multicultural experience. Why defend one over the other. It's all Australian isn't it? Do you not think that a Lebanese gang can be as harmful to someones life as a "white" gang. Or that a gang of Muslims would be equally harmful to the recipients of their anti-social nonsense?
People who act in groups need to take responsibility for that groups action. Every Christian takes the heat for the overzealous evangelicalism of "born again Christians". It may not be fair but, normal every day Christians don't go around in full defence mode all day long. Many can't stand such behavior themselves and can honestly talk about it with out being a bigot or a hater. Try a little compassion for other people. Try putting yourself in their place with their understanding and their experience. Devaluing their personal experiences and shouting racist isn't going to promote understanding of the Muslim community.

Early on when I was working with some Basilian Brothers one of them had a sign on his wall that read: BE CAREFUL HOW YOU LIVE. YOU MIGHT BE THE ONLY BIBLE MANY PEOPLE WILL EVER READ.
You could amend it to read: YOU MIGHT BE THE ONLY QU'RAN MANY PEOPLE WILL EVER READ. Something for you think about anyway.

Most of these people just want to be reassured that your Muslims aren't plotting to eat their babies with their infidel spoons. One good look at that picture of yours and they might wonder about your diet. :-p