Irfan,
Firstly, congratulations on your score of 250 plus. I bet your bating average is the highest on OLO. Well done, and I am sure that you make yourself available to respond to comments, unlike many writers, has much to do with your score. I certainly appreciate that.

I do not limit problems to European countries, but European countries are a good example of western countries that have had a considerable influx of muslims of more recent times. There is no doubt that they have considerable problems.

One would think that the oil rich middle east countries would be flooded with immigrants. After all with the ammount of money they have, they should have the higheet living standard in the world.

Iraq is a bit different because since the Yanks toppled Saddam for them,(recall the dancing in the street) the population has been busy sorting out their pecking order, the only way they know how, by blowing each other up.

By the way, you have not answered my query of WHY devoted muslims want to come to a country with an alien culture.

"you have not answered my query of WHY devoted muslims want to come to a country with an alien culture."

Banjo, I'm not sure which devoted Muslims you speak of. The theology I was taught was that a devoted Muslim should adopt the culture of the country s/he migrates to.

What we see in Australia is not Islam as a religion but numerous Islams as ethno-religious identities, most of which are of little relevance to 2nd and 3rd generation Muslims and to Muslim converts.

What makes this particularly sad is that the ethnic tribalism of the 1st generation migrants has been glorified by the Howard govt which deliberately ensured its Muslim Reference Group was stacked out with ethnic tribal leaders.

Mr Howard accuses Muslims of not adopting democracy and then goes ahead and handpicks which Muslims he will talk to. The ethnic fueds of these leaders is given national prominence.

So why aren't the rest of the more mainstream Muslims speaking out? Some are. The rest are too busy getting on with their lives. That might explain why Howard acknowledged that 99% of Aussie Muslims have completely integrated.

Ifran as an Australian you have to realise that Howard is irrelevant to Australians. Howards divide and conquer strategies are political discourse which influence is confined to the ivory tower of Canberra and a couple of puppet news papers and shock jocks. The only people listening are little old ladies with dementia who will blame unemployed single obese mothers who can drive but have disbled stickers who smuggled diamonds into Australia fleeing Vietnam on a raft of hashish and heroine because they secretly belong to several trade unions which is why they hide their faces with a burkah.

I am not saying posters here hold physically justifiable reasons for fearing Islam but I am saying their fears are valid because of terrorism. That aside obviously the Christians are in direct competition to reinforce their beliefs and even though their superstition runs by the same concocted logic as Islam its bums on seats which the whole dungeons and dragons thing justifies its self on, not to mention the incoming $$$.

Obviously we need a second coming of John Lennon and at least if he is too decayed to sing then it would still be a neat magic trick.

"So why aren't the rest of the more mainstream Muslims speaking out?"

Well, if they get the sort of reception that Irfan has above, I surely can't imagine...

Several people who post here are so obdurate in their Islamophobia that there is mostly little point in engaging with them (which is why I mostly don't). However, I'm reasonably sure that the people who rant on about Muslims in online forums aren't exactly representative of the general community ;)

Having said that, while it's sometimes moderately amusing for me to read, this kind of sustained Islamophobic venting is probably quite offensive to any Muslims who might happen to read the discussion. Given some of the crap that's written above, why would any Muslim want to invite abuse by attempting to participate?

I have no great love of Islam (or ay other religion), but I have a strong abhorrence of bigotry - which is all too apparent here.

"I too don't like Christian fundamentalists ("Bible-bashers") but I have yet to see any of them demonstrate their madness by holding up placards which read: "Behead those who say that Christianity is violent". But I do have a picture of an Islamic fundamentalist holding up a Muslim version of this slogan in a London demonstration just over twelve months ago"

No, you just see them distributing leaflets calling upon them to pray that God destroys Buddhist, Hindu and Masonic temples. You just see them openly flouting orders of the family court. You just see them campaigning to re-introduce immigration policies which discriminate against anyone deemed Muslim (even if they be a family of Egyptian Copts!).

And it makes so much sense to judge 1.2 billion people by the actions of one person. Lots of wisdom and logic on display there.

Christian fundamentalists are more than just 'bible bashers'. If that was all, they could be easily ignored. It is all in the degree of sophistication that violence is promoted and used as an end to a means.

It could be argued that the 20 to 30million strong Christian fundamentalists have more clout, both financially and politically to influence life for the rest of us.

Read up on the influence some well known Christians have within AIPAC, the most powerful Jewish lobby in the US. Ask yourself, what do some Christians and the Jewish lobby group have to gain by working together? Or rather, why are they finding each other useful?

Don't just take my word for it. I know a few of you think I'm a simple head in the clouds bleeding heart who must have led a charmed protected life. There are enough within the Jewish, both orthodox and secular, and mainstream Christian community very concerned about this unholy alliance.

Some sites you may wish to visit are:
http://www.jewsonfirst.org/christian_zionist.php
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5193092.stm
http://www.christianzionism.org/News&CommentaryN.asp

This last one is a Christian site and includes some interesting articles, including a letter from Jimmy Carter.
None of the above sites are pro Muslim or apologetics for Muslims. They should all ring alarm bells re the ‘peace loving’ Christians who do not wave placards threathening beheadings.