Oh irfan: Look at the countries that are islamic and/or the western countries with islamic citizens and no social problems - come on now sport!
Wait until the islamic clowns order the islamic death-lovers to begin a bombing campaign in Singapore like say in Thailand - a peaceful country one time well relatively so.
You are right here irfan the Cronulla riots were the work of the blood thirsty Baptist Women's group. It was they who attacked surf lifesavers NOT, as many islamophobes claim, the adherents of the peace loving pagan moslems.
Again irfan study islamic nations, read newspapers or watch TV learn how they govern the masses in most islamic nations the minority have a type of a democratic system and even less allow? their nationals to change their religion. In Saudi Arabia for one Christians cannot meet cannot hold a Bible study or Church service cannot even carry a Bible openly. And definitely cannot erect Churches irfan please cease making a total twit of yourself as regards the aims of islam.
regards, numbat

Irfan if there was god why is his words not perfect? I think what molems and christians both suffer is Kubriks 'Eyes wide shut' on this matter. Why do you think the Red Cross never kill people and drain their blood? It is because it is not in the Red Cross's constitution to do so. It is effectively imposible that the Red Cross will do so. If you join the Red Cross you know the Red cross will eject you and disown you if you murder on their behalf and they wont accept the benifits , the blood you gained for them.God is not as perfect as the Red Cross for if he existed he allows such things to occur in his name. Those who choose to believe in Allah or Christ or whatever are accepting that terrorism , child molesting, ripping off the elderly , persecuting others , rioting , violence and judgement are part and parcel of what it is to belong to a fraternity of a religion. The various football codes are also struggling to confront this problem with players and although losing the battle at least they confront it which is the opposite to what any religion is doing especially Islam and christianity.

'A RADICAL Muslim cleric linked to the World Trade Centre bombing is coming to Melbourne as a key speaker at a major Islamic conference.

Sheik Bilal Philips is listed by the US Government alongside Osama bin Laden as an accused conspirator in the 1993 Twin Towers car bombing which killed six and injured more than 1000.
Australian authorities are now considering the sheik's application to enter Australia next month.

But investigations have revealed the sheik:

ADVOCATES marriage to pre-pubescent girls.......'

http://www.news.com.au/sundayheraldsun/story/0,21985,21399450-2862,00.html

The problem with moderate Muslims like Irfan is that they provide cover for the lunatic fringe of Islam and legistimise the existence of mental cases like Sheik Bilal Philips.

It far easier and more practical to debunk the WHOLE of Islam without trying to split hairs as to who is moderate and sane, and who is extreme and looney.

Irfan

I don't know how you keep up the stamina to try and show another side of Islam to some of the posters. My experience with some posters have been that it does not matter what authority you may have, how long you may have experienced living in mainly Muslim societies or societies with a major number of Muslims, if it does not fit in the picture it will be discarded. Preferably with a scary website, which if they were indeed Muslim ASIO would probably be knocking (?)on their door. It doesn't matter that scary websites exist for any extremist idea.

There are many, many ordinary people who see Muslims, Catholics, Lutherans, Anglicans also as ordinary people. Whether a God (or Gods)exists, that would be another interesting debate.

The issue we should be discussing is the rise of fundamentalism, not ONLY in Islam, but also in Christianity. Both are equally scary to me. The rise of extremist (and if there is a God, erroneous) ideas.

I believe the rise of extremism is directly related to the sense of uncertainty that globalism brings. Governments of all kinds seem to be less able to deliver the security that most people want.

I've been on your weblog, but found the many ugly anonymous posts too putrid. How cowardly is an Anonymous post.

I agree, whenever Hilali coughs, let alone opens his mouth, we get bombarded with 'news' reports. He makes good copy, especially because he doesn't speak English, which in itself could be construed as 'suspect'.

Yvonne, what authority does Irfan have? He's a lawyer for Chrissake!! And how long has he experienced living in mainly Muslim countries? I understood that he came to Australia from Pakistan as a very small child - and has since balloooned out.

I too don't like Christian fundamentalists ("Bible-bashers") but I have yet to see any of them demonstrate their madness by holding up placards which read: "Behead those who say that Christianity is violent". But I do have a picture of an Islamic fundamentalist holding up a Muslim version of this slogan in a London demonstration just over twelve months ago

Tom..good2c you snapping away at various blinkered_posters :)

Now we need to sink our teeth into some others.

SMH reported (as per the link above) regarding the Sheikh Phillips as follows:

"ADVOCATES marriage to pre-pubescent girls."

Now..to be fair, this is not a quote from Philips, it is a "report of his position". Still, the fact that Yasser Solimon sees fit to denegrate his view, supports the idea that it is truthful re his actual position.

[Muslim leader Yasser Soliman said the sheik's views on young girls were distasteful, unfortunate and not a true reflection of Islam.]

Did I read that correctly ? NOT a true reflection of Islam ?

Ooo....k.. lets look AT "Islam" as contained in a number of hadiths about the same issue of Mohammad's marriage to Aisha.

[Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234:
Narrated Aisha:

The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj........

Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of NINE years of age.]

I report... you decide. "Islam" does...or does not allow/promote(by example) the marriage to pre-or near pre pubescent girls ?

Apart from outside non Islamic influences, why would this ever change ? So if Islam was able to remain stable in any given country from the days of its establishment till now, the custom would still be the same. And.. surprise surprise.. for many older Saudies it is.
(Google this)

Yvonne.. are you actually seeing this ? are u going to persist in saying that its our 'western' views which colour our understanding of Islam and only impose our own understanding on it ? did you read that hadith ? would you like to read the full version ? You can.. just google it, heck..I'll save you the trouble.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/058.sbt.html#005.058.234
There.. read to your hearts content. Then, I'll be happy for you to explain to us how this is 'not' what_it appears to be :)
cheers