Ifran people are reacting to terrorism. Unfortunately for Moslems the fact terrorism has occurred in the name of Allah means that ghost is in the machine. TR is right the defensive argument is like the gun lobby bumper sticker ‘guns don’t kill…’
If guns could not kill then nobody would get shot. If Islam is peaceful no terrorism could occur.

The Christians here are in the same boat their religion has the same ghost in their machine. The only relevant consideration is the ghost in the machine. Many Italian fascists had nothing against the Jews, they most probably would have argued that only fanatical fascists hated the Jews and did not represent fascism. In the end their loyalty was to the fascism and they did persecute Jews. Anti-Semitism is a ghost in the fascist machine. Terrorism is a ghost in the Islamic machine wether Moslems like it or not.

The fact is now terrorism and Islam have become synonymous and no doubt Islam will be regarded a monster by the west (including India and southern Africa) for a many hundreds of years to come September 11 now not having been an isolated occurrence. It was only after World War 1 the price of the Ottoman attack on Austria – orientalism began to break down. That at a time when the Moorish invasion of Spain and the subsequent crusades that it sparked could have been lost in popular history but the old animosity revived.

Jewish Australians don’t ask anything of other Australians. There is no Australian –Judeo conflict. Bringing a Jewish element into the discourse of uncomfortable co-existence Moslems face in this country wont help anybody make friends , it may make matters worst. The only people who had a problem with Jews in our history, I am talking 1970’s to possibly the September 11 attack were neo-Nazi skinheads. That’s what Australians will identify surprise attacks on the Jewish community with. Israel and Palestine are not our problem, terrorism is. The koran like the bible is long over due for a rewrite by committed ghost busters.

Irfan, buddy, maaaate ... please go a little easier with the acronyms, eh? {Your post of 10 March 2007 6:51:55 PM)

For the benefit of those who might not otherwise know the BJP is the Bharatiya Janata Party - Indian People's Party (created in 1980, it is one of two major national political parties in India and projects itself as a champion of the socio-religious cultural values of the country's Hindu majority); the LTTE are the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (aka Tamil Tigers), which is proscribed as a terrorist organisation in 32 countries; while FARK is a noise that crows make. The acronym for the Colombian guerrilla group is FARC (Fuerzas Armadas Revolucionarias de Colombia), which translates into English as the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia. FARC was established in 1964-1966 as the military wing of the Colombian Communist Party.

Irf..

Jews don't believe in establishing a 'Jewish State' in Australia. Many Muslims, and to be more focused "Islam" as an Ideology does.

You should know by now that I can back this up with plenty of documentary evidence from strong Islamic traditions. So, I'll refrain from repeating it here, now.

Just yesterday on the news, 2 notable anecdotal incidents were reported which should interest us.
But by way of background, lets look at what a 'whacko' Liberal said recently.

http://www.active.org.au/sydney/news/display.php3?article_id=4442&group=webcast
[Liberal Member of Parliament for the electorate of Hunter Danna Sue Vale...Ms Vale has taken the long view, warning that by dint of reproduction alone fertile and attractive Moslem citizens could render Australia an Islamic nation within fifty years, if ‘we’ other Australians continue to ‘abort ourselves almost out of existence.’]

Now, if it was just a 'whacko right wing conservative' saying this, we might be tempted to write it off as typical hyper fundy right wing lunacy. BUT....

http://www.news.com.au/sundayheraldsun/story/0,,21359122-662,00.html
"Turn the World to Islam" is the story. (referring to DVDs and literature available in Melbourne)

There was a story on Sky news yesterday about a Muslim Cleric who urged Muslims to take over Australia by outbreeding the rest. (Cannot obtain a source for this, other than hearing it last night)

So, while it is quite true that there is no single voice representing the Islamic community in Australia (who would want to claim ownership of or alliegance to Hilali ?) the many voices we do hear are saying very different things.

Irf assures us that Islam and thus Muslims are docile and friendly contributors to society, who are simply 'misunderstood'. Fellow Human,Pericles, CJ Morgan and gang, would have us believe that my rantings are simply out of context selections designed to alienate the Muslim community and are based on hatred.

But is it possible that the 'Gang' is basing its opinion on just 'one' preferred and selected Muslim voice ? while I am aiming at another ?

SAUDI ISLAMIC JUSTICE "What! you got raped ? you dirty girl, its the LASH for you.. 90 stipes"
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2006/11/4/14524/0625

Snappy Tom, the only crow that ever went FARK was Graham Kennedy's on-air crow.

Irfan,
How did this thread go from differing public reaction following the comments of Sheik Hilali to that of Prof Isreali, to that of international terrorism?

The reason for the differing public reactions is simply that most people did not view Isreali's comments as offensive. Wheras Hilali's comments were offensive.

I have said here and on other similar threads, that Muslims have a poor reputation, which is not without reason. I am sure that you well know this.

Talk to most females that deal with muslims in their daily work and they will tell you that muslims are rude, arrogant, dictatorial and offensive. The conduct of the gang rapists, in court, displayed no respect for our Laws and justice system. Muslims will not try to integrate with others and are seemingly trying to get seperate advantages for themselves. Then there is the anti-social behavior of young male muslims. These type of factors are reason for poor reputation.

I beleive that you once stated that the Lebonese made up the majority of muslims in Australia. This being so,our perception may be a little distorted because the main muslims the we encounter are Lebonese. However, this is countered by reports about other muslims from time to time, and from overseas.

Now we have reports of growing muslim population here, and more political influence coming from this. Sheik Omran saying muslims should take advantage of our low birth rate and breed more. Did not a prominant Muslim leader once say that muslims will conquer the world through the wombs of muslim women?

Is not it reasonable that secular Australia be concerned that our way of life is threatened?

Once again, Boaz, you are being simultaneously rabble-rousingly provocative, and dead wrong.

>>Jews don't believe in establishing a 'Jewish State' in Australia. Many Muslims, and to be more focused "Islam" as an Ideology does.<<

Through the tortured English I believe I can discern you proposing that while Jews do not look to establish Australia as a Jewish State, Moslems are bent on establishing Australia as an Islamic State.

If I have misconstrued, I apologize, the grammar is all over the place. But you then say:

>>You should know by now that I can back this up with plenty of documentary evidence from strong Islamic traditions.<<

You cannot.

You can drag up a few fanatics who rant on about turning the world to Islam, but you could do the same for Naziism if you so desired - there are plenty of hate sites out there on the Internet to choose from, after all.

Some of them make your hair stand on end, truly they do.

So the most you can say in all honesty is that "there are a few nutters around who use ancient scriptures to justify their own position against other competing religions."

You, unfortunately, like it or not, are one of them.

But the serious part is that each time you write, there is a possibility that one weak soul thinks that you are spot on, and vows to fight Muslims wherever he finds them. On the beaches, in the streets, whack-a-mozzie.

And simultaneously there is one more Muslim who is convinced that Australia is full of Boaz_Davids, expressing hatred and spouting vilification, and who will go out onto those same beaches and those same streets, ready to fight for their honour.

Start being part of the solution, if you can.

As Fellow Human points out, right now you are a part of the problem.