Yvonne, I don't think that you have got my drift. It seems that when it suits them that some Muslims will say that there is a Muslim "culture", e.g. in response to Salman Rushdie's book, while at other times they will deny it.

As for the situation in Iraq of course a lot of it is Muslim upon Muslim violence. Yet some crazy apologists for Islamism would suggest that this is part of a "Muslim Holocaust". There is also Muslim upon Christian violence and Muslim upon Mandean violence happening in Iraq. Which is why many people from the latter groups are currently fleeing Iraq.

If the Middle East is such a powder keg as a result of American imperialist meddling in Middle East affairs, why then isn't all of Latin America a similar powder keg - after all there is an even longer history of American meddling in that part of the world.

Dear TRTL,

Changing tack? If you can't see it's all on tack then you should re look mate. Don't you get bored poring over the same few words and still not seeing the picture. It's not an optical illusion or the same in words. It's right there staring you in the face TRTL.

It's in Irfan's writing. It's his way, use the base emotional appeal to attract a few pointless posts.

Consistency? You mean plodding away with one idea in your head, one thought, one train to ride, one. Are you not full of small parts of personality that all want to do their thing? Or are you so straight up and down that there is but one idea, TRTL?

Here's a real change of tack, something for you and others to ponder.

Re the very real human and social tragedies in Indonesia, would anyone attribute these to a deity? A Muslim deity, a Christian deity? Is there method in the manner in which these islands have been continually battered by natural and social disasters? Who's deity is taking responsibility for caring for those damaged and killed?

Or is this a case where deity's move in mysterious ways, like evading any responsibility at all?

If one was South Australian one might cry out loudly "Why Alla?".

Back to Yvonne. How ignorant can one be dear? Where do you get the idea that any culture or group can be "as one"? I've seen some dumb comments but yours is top of the class. Unless you assume that all beings are "one" which may be the real truth after all.

F.H. so... Islamic radicalism is now 'my fault' :)

You do have a partial point though. "My attitude" becoming a self fulfilling prophecy is in part valid. But it could not have any currency unless the raw materials were there in the first place, and I would not put very much weight on my utterances in this forum which is probably not read by many Muslims at all right ? My words are aimed at Non Muslims, and they are not designed to incite hate, but awareness.
I believe with my whole heart, that Islam as presented by the 'public faces' of it, are like a mask, and when people are sufficiently taken in, then the mask is ripped off and suddenly you see who it really was who lured you into this situation from which you cannot escape without serious threat to your life. (not so much in Australia, but you know as well as me that in places like Pakistan and others this is a reality)

Regarding the idea of mentioning the violent passages from the Old Testament and claiming it is 'Christianity'... well I have to wear that on the chin mate. If people choose to do so, I cannot stop them, but only teach them. The difference is, I can show by context that such 'blood thirsty' instances are in no way connected to general commands to wipe people out, or treat them in such ways.

Islam is not so, and this is clearly evidenced by its doctrines and history. Mohammad is repeatedly described as the 'Best of all creation' and of mankind.. so if such a claim is made in public with a view to attracting people to become his followers in 2007, then the whole of his life should be subject to serious and minute scrutiny don't you agree ?

The idea that people can proclaim him as 'best' in the full knowledge (but rationalized) that he did as I've described, is of great concern to me.

Remember....this thread is about 'misunderstood'

Betty.. you need to be disciplined :) "back to topic" mate.

Yvonnne... ur turn :)

"How come the middle east is such a powder keg" ? err..I explained that to you in another thread, but in that one (u remember..the SCARRRRRY one) I made no mention of the conflict between Muslim and Muslim (Shia/Sunni). Ok.. put your learning cap on and listen up please. Dr Google will now inform you about this matter.

http://historymedren.about.com/library/text/bltxtiraq5.htm

Read that, and you will be full bottle on that particular issue.
For info on the Palestine/Israel thing, read 'Dr Boaz' in the other threads.

Why are they not one happy family in fighting a common enemy ?

Actually in many places they are ! Bosnia had mercinaries from just about every Muslim country around... and Afghanistan had even British muslims fighting there. The do unit against a common enemy, based on the "Islamic" commonality, but in a country like Australia, it seems to matter more if ur Turk, Iraqi,Pakistani or Lebanese when it comes to who runs the show.(Local Muslim/ethnic politics) But I think they are all united on the issue of 'The evil west'.

..and be nice to Betty :) and don't snap at Tom, but ignore Oliver, I cannot for the life of me see any point in his last post. (Ol.. u can do better mate)

Is it possible that the message is finally getting through, Boaz?

>>"My attitude" becoming a self fulfilling prophecy is in part valid<<

I am personally delighted to see this - even partial - admission.

That if you first imagine an enemy, then arm yourself to the teeth, and proceed to go on the warpath, there is a real possibility that your wishes will be met and a battle will take place.

But that battle will be with fanatics that are actually brought into being by the incontinent outpouring of your own fanaticism.

>>My words are aimed at Non Muslims, and they are not designed to incite hate, but awareness<<

Now Boaz, even when you wrote that you must have realized that it is either the most egregious piece of mendacity imaginable, or naivety beyond the boundaries of logical interpretation.

Your campaign has been consistently rabble-rousing, with its deliberate selection of texts, and idiosyncratic interpretation of those texts, designed to strike fear into the hearts of the masses.

Why else do you choose only those items that indicate a propensity to the mass slaughter of religious opponents?

Why else do you add a narrative that describes the inevitable progression of this religion being that its supporters will murder you in your bed?

If you doubt me, take another look at your posts on the topic. They all carry the same message, that Islam is a religion designed with the sole objective of wiping out infidels.

You have some distance to go, but it encourages me that you are at last starting to perceive that there may be an audience out there whose own hatred is inspired and nurtured by your own.

Despots and dictators know well the power of fear, and rely upon the creation of a backlash that will in turn be used as justification for the crusade in the first place - a neat circular system, where the fearful dupes are themselves part of the weaponry.

Think about it some more, Boaz.

I see a glimmer of hope here.

Again Boaz Christians see the west as the evil west. Our society is constantly under attack at Christians making up crack pot morals and then condeming western society against ridiculous Christian values.

All religious people are superstitious by definition. All people who need a guidence from gods exist in a state of moral panic.

All such people are self centred living a life hoping to be saved to be as immortal as a god.

Boaz all the voodoo mumbo Jumbo of god belief is fine in the privacy of anybodies own home , wether it is monotheism , Christianity , Satanism, Islam or celebrity worship. Or theism such as paganism, Hindi or Wiccan or Atheism such as Buddhism.

When god belief effects the general public , aligns with politics , forms institutions , seeks to rule or at least have "moral" influence then religion becomes fascism. Christians fighting with Muslims is utterly ridiculous since both cults are in operational terms the same superstition with the same self serving set of values.

If Christians are allowed to persecute Moslems then there will be no stopping them , it will be the Jews, Atheists and Gypsies next. To an outsider watching Christians and Moslems fight like this is like watching two Bikie gangs slanging off at each other.