Wow coach, what is your religion that must preach such fear, mistrust and hate? Clearly it's not Christianity.

Well Donnie, There's all kinds of Christianity just like there is all kinds of Islam. Independent of faith is the individuals perspective and whether or not their "faith" is of healing or of hatred.
Militant Islam isn't just killing non-believers. It is actually murdering many more Muslims. Of course it's not their fault. Western society and Allah made them do it. Just like God made Jim Jones and David Koresh do it or Heaven's Gate, the name of a UFO religion co-led by Marshall Applewhite and Bonnie Nettles.

The cult's end coincided with the appearance of Comet Hale-Bopp in 1997. Applewhite convinced 38 followers to commit suicide so that their souls could take a ride on a spaceship that they believed was hiding behind the comet.

God works in mysterious ways.

Dear F.H. and others on the "dark side"

mate.. I have proclaimed Christ many many times...and you know it.

But.. on the 'bagging' bit.. you cannot get much more 'bagging' than for your holy book to 'bag' Christians and Jews and calling Allahs curse on us, and to destroy us BY NAME.. I mean..seriously, unless ur on massive doses of prozac or other 'sedatives' no one could not 'get' just how serious this is.

In Victoria it is illegal..outright "Religious vilification"

If it was some peripheral belief of Christians, perhaps we might not be so concerned but this is the absolute HEART and SOUL of being a follower of Christ.. 'Who' is Christ Jesus ? He is according to the first verse of Marks Gospel "the Son of God" so.. the Quran is 'cursing us' for this, and invoking Allah's destruction for this...BY NAME.. mate.

Here is an issue close to the topic..from some Muslim claiming good knowledge of his faith.(berating slackers who don't want to kill apostates)

[read fatha bari (explanation of bukhari) and you will get a proper explanation of the hadith. the prophet muhammad pbuh, his companions, their students, the 4 imams and their students and the scholars of today agree that any person who opstates from islam should be killed there are proof from the hadith. it is a minority of ignorant people who defy the command of the prophet]

Note his authorities ?

1/ The Prophet
2/ His Companions
3/ The 4 Imams
4/ Scholars of today.

So.....'what' are the Muslim academics Abe has in mind going to say ?

Your holy book curses me, but mine blesses you "As the Father sent me, so I send you" "If you love only those who love you, what is your reward" Jesus wants me to love you, your holy book wants to destroy me for following the One who wants me to love you :) -go figure.

aquarius, I wasn't aware that simply pointing out errors in another's post constitutes "bias and presumptions". If something is wrong - and in this case the error was created by Boaz shooting from the hip in a typical anti-Islam rant - then it is only fair to point it out.

I added the "liar" bit because it was patently obvious that he had declined to check his facts.

And you are getting close to the same wilful disregard of the truth, aren't you?'

>>That 1.6 mill you want recognized is from UK 2001 census. This being 2007 means some increase in population in Muslim religion... considering that Muslims having large families and that the UK is the number one destination for migrant Muslims from around the world. The 2 million is very realistic<<

The 1.6 million figure (whose source, I should like to point out, I made absolutely clear, together with the appropriate URL) is for Britain. The 2 million that Boaz claims (without substantiation, note) is in the category of "Muslim youth".

Why don't you get out your calculator. Start with 1.6 million Muslims in 2001. Add as many as you can justify (through births per 1000 per annum, estimated immigration etc) and see how close you get to two million "youths".

It might be a good idea to check first with Boaz exactly how he defines "youths", but I doubt very much that he even gave it a millisecond's thought. A quick grab of a statistic, a quick double twist and half pike and you have another deliberately shocking number with which to instil fear into the gullible.

He does it time and time again. But this is the first time he has had anyone leap to his defence.

Just lucky it was you, I guess.

Dear Fellow Human. You asked, "don't you claim that all non-believers in Jesus (and non-baptised) will go to hell?...."

While christianity does (in a Nutshell) say that all non-believers will go to hell, the difference is that the final decision is not up to us. You and God make that decision.

The bible says that the wages of sin is death but the free gift of God is Life. If you choose to reject God, reject the fact that he designed us to be in relationship with him and reject Jesus Christ as the one who died instead of us so that we might have that relationship with God, then God will honour that choice and not force you to spend eternity with him when you don't want to. Hell is basically eternal separation from God. It's your choice.

As a Christian my job is to simply share the message with you and then let God do the work in your heart. With some Religions the followers of that religion believe they have a divine right to kill anyone who strays from that religion or opposes it in any way.

By the way, it's interesting that most people don't have a problem with companies like Coke or McDonalds putting their message on TV or radio or in the paper or even subliminaly in movies. After all they are not forcing you. You still have a choice. In fact we are willing to allow almost anyone to bombard us with their particular message. I am sometimes amazed at what we will tolorate on our TV screens.

However, when Christians present their message they are deemed to be forcing it down our throats. Why is that? Isn't the final choice still ours to make? What is it about the Christian message that makes us not even want to hear it? Is it that threatrening? Is it that convicting.

Well said Proverbs

Pericles, I always appreciate your attempt to restore statistical balance and truth to the debate, specially when 'speaking from the hip'... to be honest I think I made a miscalculation there on the one million.. I hesitate to admit this, because there is a certain poster who delights in accumulating lists of my 'sins' .. something I prefer to avoid, I like to debate issues rather than debating style. I was not lying, but clearly I had some error in coming to the conclusion about the number of youth. That said, please don't allow that to sway you from the central point, which was not so much the numbers, but the proportions.

Aqvarvis did a good job in deconstructing the various demographic positions.. please don't waste any more space on that.. focus on the issue at hand. "Muslim Academics" etc.

Feel free to subject my last post to the same detailed scrutiny, I would value your research on the matter. So ?

F.H. you sound embattled mate... you are clinging there to things which appeal to sentimentality rather than solid debate.
We can always agree to disagree, but here, we seek to advance a discussion about important issues. You standard defense about 'You don't understand Islam' is not carrying much weight. I will always respond with 'Islam came from'.....? and you know how it goes from there.
Peace 2 u also.

isn't it night to have freedom to criticize others, and points of religion without being banned or kicked off the forum.. UNlike Sydney Islamic forum.