FH,

I can easily throw your lines back to you:
Spirituality and religious beliefs are very personal matters. Those who keep sparking debates against other beliefs means that they are not convinced with their own positions (simple psychological fact). One day you will find a faith that makes sense to you. You will know that when you stop challenging other religions on public forums.

Except let me remind you that it is Islam that selectively and passionately attacks Jews and Christians in their books and sermon teachings – for reasons of insecurity of course.

If Islam had divine support it would not have to resort to personal threats and terrorism. We Christians leave the judging to our God Jehovah.

As for me, my faith in Jesus Christ the Son of God is strong and unshakable. I have 100% assurance of salvation; when my time on earth is done I will be united with The One true God The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit for eternity. What about you? Who is your personal saviour? Where are you planing to spend eternity?

You don’t answer my questions because you don't have answers do you?

The fact is your "faith" doesn't have the answers to life and death - it's all superstition and false hopes in a capricious god that keeps changing his mind.

Allah is not God - otherwise he would have made it clear to Mohammad that salvation is in His Son “alone” and not in a religion and/or laws.

Can keeping the laws of your religion save you?

All the biblical prophets attest to Jesus as The Messiah The Son of God. Therefore Mohammad cannot be a prophet and cannot have any association with The Word.

Have a good holiday and may Jesus prove real to you.

coach, I assume this remark was aimed at our friend Boaz?

>>Those who keep sparking debates against other beliefs means that they are not convinced with their own positions (simple psychological fact)<<

Thought so.

>>So.. suggesting I am only taking 'ONE' side of the picture is not good argument.<<

Boaz, don't forget that the position here is "is Boaz a rabble-rouser?"

Of course you take one side of an argument and push it - that's what forums are for. But you inevitably take it one stage further.

I still urge you to go and buy a copy of Mosley's "My Life", and observe how a highly intelligent, highly articulate man can convince himself that a particular view of life - fascism in his case - is the natural and most productive condition in which humankind can live.

He did not spend his time promulgating a balanced view either. He chose not to laud the achievements of the UK's Jewish population to balance his support of an anti-Semitic organization. In fact - and here the parallels get creepy - he went out of his way to paint the picture that he was not against Jews per se, even stating "[I] have not at any time been an anti-semite"

But do you entertain any doubts that Mosley was a rabble-rouser? Do you think that maybe he was not, after all, anti-Semitic?

Presenting interminably, and with vigour and self-certainty, that something is evil, Boaz, leaves you wide open to the charge of rabble-rousing.

As does the selection inflammatory material in support of your cause, choosing only the most unflattering extracts.

It is what rabble-rousers do.

Mosley did it. You are doing it.

And like Mosley, you are in complete and absolute denial that what you are doing is in any way harmful.

"We had a programme... which we were convinced could save the country in condition of crisis that might at any time deteriorate into national disaster. It seemed to me an absolute duty to give our people the opportunity to understand it and support it" Sir Oswald Mosley, My Life

Sounds familiar.

Coach,

Spirituality is really simple to me/us:

We believe we are one of the same, Muslims are no different than Christians of the 3rd/ 4th century and our position on Jesus is a biblical one. The Qu’ran as you may have read clearly stipulates that Muslims must believe in the Torah and the Bible.

Post 4th century theology (ie Trinity, divinity, original sin, etc..) is your right to believe in it if it makes sense to you. History taught us that religious debates about Jesus have never been resolved by discussions or by war: there are still growing Muslims, Christians, catholics, atheists, hindus, bhuddists, etc. What is important is to look for what we have in common with each other as groups and promote harmony. That’s what will make this country an even greater one.

PS: I never sparked a debate about religion, I only respond when my faith is mis-interpreted or mis-represented. I don’t try and preach my faith and you won’t find a single inconsistent posting on these forums. This is contrary to what you and boaz who have thousands of comments attacking a faith that is not yours. Btw, my intervention and correction happens with Muslims a lot more as i have no problem interrupting an Imam if he is quoting some of Boaz' 'dodgy' hadith. I had a famous encounter in a mosque in brisbane once.

Please forgive me if any of my previous comments offended you,

Peace,

FH,

Sorry that won't do it.

Islam does not have the same understanding of the person and mission of Jesus.

The "debate" as you put it is not about a difference of opinion about Jesus but the centrality of Jesus in Christianity and The Bible.

See FH, without Jesus dying on the cross for your sins and mine - the whole Bible reverts back to the Old Testament… stuck in the law.

After Jesus, the law becomes redundant. Moses job is over replaced by the redeeming saving power and grace of Jesus.

Original sin is the reason for the bible - not a 4th century post-resurrection after thought.

Without “original sin” Jesus' mission to earth is obsolete.

So don't tell me/us that Islam believes in the Bible and the Torah when crucial tenets are intentionally neglected to give way to a different set of beliefs.

Sorry but the more I read the Qur'an the more alien and anti-biblical your religion appears to be (compared to the real deal).

I will not accept your insinuations that your religion is somehow similar to Christianity. It is not and will never be. The Qur’an teaches that Jesus never died on a cross… how stupid is that?

Allah is a non-committed god – he cannot save you, couldn't save your prophet or even save suicide bombers. It is all a lie, a fictional fabrication from Mohammad.

How could the whole world accept the fact that Jesus died on a cross and your religion denies it?

Are you still willing to push for “similarities”?

It is time for you to accept Jesus as your personal saviour. Make your peace with the real God that loves you and died for you.

It is time you examine the reasons why you are defending the lies – because I sense that deep down you must know that Islam does not really add up to anything.

I am praying for you and all my other Muslim friends who haven't yet chosen the truth and the life.

Fellow Human -You say:
“my intervention and correction happens with Muslims a lot more as i have no problem interrupting an Imam if he is quoting some … 'dodgy' hadith. I had a famous encounter in a mosque in brisbane once“.

Please tell us when you spoke up against the “dodgy" hadith.
What was the outcome-did the Imam change his tune-or did you ultimately agree to disagree?

Coach,

You said "I am praying for you and all my other Muslim friends who haven't yet chosen the truth and the life"
I am sure many muslims are praying for you too and many bhuddists are praying for both us:):)
Let's agree to disagree and park it there.

Horus,

Where I grew up it was a must for scholars to quote references and source. When quoting from the Qu'ran is easy because most of the audience would know or memorised parts of it, but with the hadith the discipline is the imam should quote the source and refernce, etc..
I was actually surprised that in the case of the Brisbane (an indian pakistani) one he was just quoting 'losely right left and centre' without referring to the source so I had to intervene quickly. He was taken by surprise and apologetic and he said he will correct it in his next Friday speech but I was there on a surfing holiday so honoring his promise to me is between him and God.

One thing he said that worried me is that in his culture imams do not have to quote the source or contextualise which I find scary.

On another occasion, I was asked to leave the mosque, but that is another story altogether.