F.H. I'm 'up' to exposing some of the dark side of the 'Islamic force'...

If you asked 100 people in the street "Did you know that the Quran CURSES Christians and Jews because of their core beliefs" ? I think you might get some who would 'guess' it 'yes' but most would not have a clue.

So.... that, for the record is what I'm up to. For Kartiya and CJ and Pericles (the gang of 3, but where Kartiya is the most noticably sincere of the 3, Pericles second and CJ. runnning way behind on that score)

"Christ like". Thats just a re-run of the 'your a bad Christian' attack that Marylin Shepherd used to heap on us. The facts are that Jesus was both harsh and gentle. He was harshEST on those who have been given ample evidence of His divinity and Messiahship.

Luke 10:13
Woe to you, Chorazin! woe to you, Bethsaida! for if the works of power which have taken place in you had taken place in Tyre and Sidon, they had long ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.

So lets not become debating bottom feeders and resort to guilt trips to silence our 'enemies'.

I do need slowing down at times, granted, but I've yet to be criticized on my sourcing and factuality on Islam apart from our resident apologist F.H. who is more than a little determined to avoid at all costs facing up to the content of his Quran and Prophet.

QUESTION: What is the topic ?
ANSWER: "Muslim academics must speak up"
QUESTION: "Speak up about what"?
ANSWER: "Ability to self criticize"

Where to I fit in this ? Simple, I'm raising important issues which require 'self criticism'.
Where are you gang of 3 fitting in ? Ad hominems against me.

Muslim leaders will never self-criticize publicly or even privately because of they have always suffered from paranoia and extreme insecurity.

The whole concept of Islam is but a house of cards. They follow religiously the words (and threats) of a deranged man from Mecca who walk up from a trance and started to dream up a political and social revolution.

Take for example the Al-Aqsa mosque in the news again. As soon as some Israelis scratched a bit of dirt around it hey presto hands up and curse the invaders.

Never mind that the mosque is the result of a dream “mirage” that their dear prophet had and that he was transported (out of body) to Jerusalem and ascended (like Jesus of course) to heaven to visit with the real prophet… pure fantasy.

The mosque is an abomination and a curse to the Jews and the Christians alike, Islam has no legitimate reason to be in Jerusalem.

But we won’t go and flatten their mosque - as Muslims surely would have. We let them live their dreams and their supremacist beliefs to their own peril.

Who would Muslims listen to? Their Academics only repeat the same lies of the Qur’an over and over or they will be shut up.

Thanks for those two references Fellow human. I intent to look at them more closely.

I have a friend who has lived in a Muslim Country in Central Asia for 15 years and she tells me that there are many school of Musliom thought that teach peace and tolerance. Her comment is that the Koran is so contradictory that the peacefull Muslims and the terrorists bothe use it to justify their position. I am not dispiuting that. The problem is it is not allways easy to detirmine what side any particular Muslim academuic or cleric is taking.

There are those who hold to the terrorist view point but do not want to show that side of themselves to the west. Then there are the peacefull muslims who take the view that we must not critisise our fellow Muslims.

I would like to see more muslims in Western countries organising peace rallies and protesting against the violence by radical Muslims as giving a bad name to Islam. That alone will do so much to curb a lot of the anti muslim thought. If Muslims are serious about showing a posative image then lets see the same degree of passion in protest of violence and suicide bombers etc as we see in protest of cartoons.

Proverbs,

I agree with your comments there is always room to do more.
Thank you for your comments.

Boaz,

I am not doing the 'merry go round round round' again enjoy it with coachy junior in your lap:)

When you are ready to show some intellectual grunt and add real value let me know.

Peace,
T

Interesting defence Boaz.

>>Where are you gang of 3 fitting in ? Ad hominems against me<<

I suspect I need to plead guilty, but with mitigation.

The concept of ad hominem is "playing the man not the ball", is it not?

Clearly, this is not acceptable. But the line becomes a little harder to identify is when man and ball are deliberately conflated, making it tough for the opponent to address the ball without taking out the man at the same time.

This is an example of what I find challenging (no need to identify the writer of course):

>>Reflect on this reality from his 'example' and you might gain an insight about why I am adamant that Islam came from a Murderer, Torturer,Cruel,Megalomaniacal, sexually predatorial and politically opportunistic evil man<<

My difficulty with you, and I confess it, is that whenever you start one of your hate-speech rants about the evils of Islam, I find it difficult to state what I feel without infringing the ad hominem rules, since you identify so strongly with your position that they appear inseparable.

Try as I might, I cannot determine an impersonal stance when faced with your "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer" rabble-rousing, and your insistence that whatever passages you select from ancient texts are the only ones that are relevant.

It has escaped your notice on any number of occasions that - in exactly the same way that Christian fanatics have cut a bloody swathe through history at various times in the past - the current disturbances are also the work of fanatics.

It is the fact that they differ from you only in the particular brand of fanaticism that drives your crusade against them.

I am not prepared to examine ancient texts with you to judge which has the more bloody phraseology, or even whether one or the other has a more credible provenance.

But I will continue to take issue with you, personally, when you deliberately use your own, idiosyncratic interpretation of someone else's holy book to justify your immoderate outpourings against its adherents.

Hi Pericles...
One point first.. I don't think I've said the passages I quote are the 'only' ones relevant, but I am saying they are urgently relevant.
Why ? because they are so different from the 'sugar coated candy' selection which are usually promoted on Islamic web sites.
"Islam is a religion of Peace" is the mantra. But I say to you, it is not, and the reason it is not, can be clearly shown from the development of the earliest history including the founder. I can show this from his own words.

All of my claims about Mohammed and Islam can be supported by their own scriptures and traditions.

When a government (Indonesia) says 'You cannot have a permit to build a Church' Christians worship where they can..IN THE STREET.. and while this might be called 'provocative' to some, it sure brings out the real hate in serious Muslims as shown here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJRcKcjJM9w&mode=related&search=

Note the encounter between the Muslim bloke and one of the Christians.. the hand grasp..followed by the attempted king hit.
Dare I say it.. fully in the spirit of Mohammed and his companions.

I've often said 'Islam is incompatable with Australia' and I've justified this by saying "The bigger the community, the larger the percentage of violent radicals"...right ?
Contrast this with the Christian community. Using Abu Izzadden as our focus point. He publically berates the Home Minister Ried.. and humiliates him, the government and the wider community.

Muslims en masse hold up signs 'Kill those who insult the prophet' in London.. and how many "Radical Christians" attacked them ? hunted them down ? etc.. NONE.

F.H. See this please.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIgFug6Rr3g&mode=related&search=

So, while our community is HUGE it is not true to say 'The bigger the Christian community, the greater percentage of 'violent radicals'.

But this IS true of the Muslim community. The Muslim community is not all tarred with the terrorist or violent brush, but its fringes are.
Ask Tom Zrieka.. "I'll carve off your head, you don't represent me" said a death threat from one supporter of the 'moderate' sheikh Hillali.