dozer, very well said in that second last post. I was pleased to read Cristy's perspectives on change of roles, my only compaints with the article were the portions where she choose to dismiss mens experience. Doing so was unnecessary and showed a lack of understanding of what many men experience - the possibility that her husband has not yet been there does not mean that men don't deal with many similar issues.

R0bert

"Do you hate men because many of them remain silent about domestic violence and rape?"

Ena if you want to debate me on domestic violence got to,

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=5212

and have a look at
http://www.mediaradar.org/

If you really honestly look at the research on DV, the honest researchers do not support the feminist supposition.

Musing on Masculism
http://www.ifeminists.net/e107_plugins/content/content.php?content.77

"* Theories, such as Patriarchy Theory, give many feminists an EXCUSE to justify anti-male bigotry. This helps alleviate any guilt that would normally be associated with other types of prejudice, such as with racism. In psychology, we call this phenomena "cognitive dissonance,"

Religion or North Korea are not driving social policy in this country.

I find it interesting that when the Shiek put his foot in his mouth, there was a hue and cry across the country. Yet when people like Pru Goward tries to make jokes at men's expense, the women giggle.

I know both gay and straight men who I like as people, and there are others of either sexuality who I do not like as people. You write about gay bashing which I do not support, nor do I support another issue which is underreported and which I will not mention here because I am not going to start a homophobic war. The point is that the are good and bad men whether they are straight or gay.

Dozer - I'm conscious that we are all responding to Cristy's original piece about here experience of a change of her identity when she became a mother. Consciously sharing one's physical body with another person for at least six months is an amazing journey. Giving birth is another. Then comes mothering for the rest of your life. Fathering is a different and related journey. If we, as mothers, try to "get it right" we strike trouble from the outset. There are as many different opinions as there are people. Sharing our own journeys is perhaps the only way that another can see that there is no "right way", but as many "ways" as there are people. This knowledge then gives us the courage to step out and consciously choose what works for us and our family. The question now is: how do we guide ourselves? Do we use our intellect? our emotions? our family? other people's stories? At what point do we choose to trust ourselves? That, I think, is what this discussion about feminism is about. Finding inner trust.

Ahhh, it’s all about “Finding inner trust”!

Like for example, the identity crisis your average incredulously pregnant, hormone overladen woman in question may experience – is this child really mine? And then, … is it his? Maybe it’s neither of ours, coz I was on the pill. Whatever!? Will I really never be PM? Will he run off with the nearest non-pregnant skanky ho? Bloody patriarchy…

James H, you completely miss the point of my post - that we all belong to groups which include people we would never agree with or support, and that feminists are no different from any other group in this. Those who are religious in particular must recognise this experience. It is absurd for you to condemn all feminists out of hand because some are stupid or extreme or even nasty, just as it would be absurd to condemn all Catholics out of hand because some are stupid, or extreme or molest children or whatever.
I do not wish to argue with you about domestic violence - all violence is wrong and stupid. Men should not beat or intimidate other men, women or children, women should not beat or intimidate other women, men or children.

Fear is no basis for making a decision. It may be a factor, but if present, it clouds our judgement. The aim is to get to a place where we feel safe and strong, and then to choose what is best for us. When we are pregnant, the whole world is happy to share their fears and their hopes with us. The experience of being human is very intense. Strangers come up and put their hand on your belly. During pregnancy is a good time to look at the things people fear for us and our baby. I dealt with it by reading ALL the obstetric literature. I came to the realisation that it couldn't all happen at once. That was my comfort. Then, reading the text of the textbook I realised that the male body was the norm. Honestly....read the definitions closely. That realisation gave me the freedom I needed. Obstetricians do not know how to give birth. They are of help when something is wrong and you can't do it yourself. But I was the one with the job of giving birth. To find out how, I had to go to the women. They told me to trust myself. I did. Wow!! What an amazing journey. It is the most powerful and exhilarating thing I've done in my entire life.