Yes Logic we have graviated towards a common ubderstanding. I accept such has mean't a great deal of difficult giving on your part. That's generous and admirable.
The same unfortunately cannot be said for many Israelis and their supporters. The desire to cling to Palestinian lands and the insistance of the 'spoils of war' judtification hamper the peace process in the mid-eazst and indeed here in OLO.

I however must call issue with your statement regarding the Arab world and it's calls for the destruction of Israel. I must remind you much of the Arab world has dropped it's insistance for the destruction of Israel and again point two Egypt and Jordan and the peace initiatives of the Arab League. I mmust also point to the removal of that insistance from the Hamas Party election manifesto prior to the Palestinian election. The continued reliance on this aspect in defending Israel's provocative acts and occupation is disturbing. It shows a commplete lack of trust in the Arab peoples and their Governments. I agree the extremists are the major problem. But as I see things support would waver for them if Israel was fair dinkum in it's desire for peace and took genuine steps towards ending the occupation and returning soverignity of all Palestinian lands ('67 Borders)to a soverign Palestinian state. I'd contend aupport would largely evaporate should the occupation cease.

Islamic fanaticism has been around for centuries.

Israel has one law for one and another for others in it's conscription requirements.

True socialism has had it's day. It was found to be unworkable. Long term greed takes over ... naturally ... sadly. Unfortunately it is not just extremists in Israel it is both Lukid and Labor who have similar attitudes to the occupation. They are both hawkish. They are not minorities.

I do become agitated when wrongly accused and in the face of outright lying I react badly. However I take your point and fair criticism. In future I'll temper my comments and merely poke fun at my stupid antagonists.

keith

Firstly I wonder if anyone else is reading our discourse.

Anyway re different laws in Israel conscription is waived for certain Jewish groups, and for others it perhaps is because Israel does not expect others to risk their lives for the predominately Jewish state.

I have not really had to give much as I am not actually one eyed in my thinking, as with you I want to see peace and an end to the suffering. I have a high regard for the Arab people and their culture but do not have your confidence in the Arab governments. I hope though that on this subject that you are right and I am completely wrong.

Two questions:

I have told you that I am Jewish, is your background Muslim or Arabic, I am just curious?

Also when you type in comments to OLO does a spell check appear or did mine come with the latest Firefox upgrade.

Israel will be destroyed.
Arab tyrants will be overthrown.
Islamic Law will be revised.
East and the West prosper.

Anglo celtic. NZ by birth, spent all adult life in Brisbane. Parents: one Irish Catholic, one liberal athiest. The later was more sussessful. I'm probably agnostic infidel.

Who wants peace in the Mid East?

To all you defenders of Israel please explain! Especially you Ted!

Headline in todays New York Times:

First Settlement in 10 Years Fuels Mideast Tension.

Read the bloody article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/27/world/middleeast/27mideast.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

The Israelis are nothing but a bunch of land thieves and causes of the disruption in the mid East. This is absolute proof. Ehud Olmert is merely another lying Israeli PM.

Who can trust any of them?

Keith “East Jerusalem was mandated to the Palestinians by the UN in the 20th century. It's title is not claimed by reference to some book with a Hebrew bias in which the Hebrew 'God' gave title to the Israelites.”

But the Palestinians went to war and lost it. Some might say give it back, because of what the UN decided. Others would say “the Spoils of War”.

The political principle of “the spoils of war” has been used and applied throughout the millennia and the edicts of the UN has occasionally been implemented, baring vetoes in the security council. To my way of thinking, unless the UN can guarantee future peace, it has no right to impose national borders.

Oh, keith, here is not a place to bother to try to climb aboard a high moral horse and demand “retract and apologise”.

The biggest beast allowed is a shetland pony and I always feel a little ridiculous sporting full armour and chain mail, sat majestically astride a beast upon which my feet still touched the ground.