Ah PF

Thank you for your revelationary information.

Do tell PF, are your free range pigs exempt from castration, tail chopping and teeth filing without anaesthetic?

Are your free range lambs exempt from mulesing without anaesthetic?

Are your free range cows exempt from being jammed in a crush where rouseabouts perform laparotomies and rip out their ovaries without the benefit of anaesthetic?

Are your free range chickens exempt from debeaking without the aid of anaesthetic?

The issue, to phase out mulesing was met with a vociferous protest from the WA pastoralists and graziers association who described the recommendation as "unfeasible", "unworkable" and "unacceptable".

Of course, these pastoralists and graziers who protest, like to drive their Mercedes and BMWs to their meetings. Acquaintances of mine (a sheep farmer) flies his own plane when attending meetings in the CBD. He's the one who ties his sheep dogs up at the entrance to his property in 45 degree heat with 44 gallon drums as kennels and not a tree in sight.

The objections by these farmers is to be expected from humans who torture animals for a living and who frantically continue to change the subject when challenged - that of the barbaric treatment of other species for profit.

"There is reported evdience that some animals are skinned while alive and conscious and strung upside down, when the compulsory 'stunning' has been 'inadequate'!"

Umm Heather, if you have evidence of such practises in Australia,
I suggest that you immediately report the meatworks concerned to the
RSPCA. They would be closed down in a flash!

Do you actually have any knowledge about the industry? Judging
by your comments, I doubt it. Are you aware that around 80% of
animals never see a saleyard? Today its all weight and grade or
on farm sales. Are you aware that troughs are installed at all
meatworks I have seen anyhow, so all animals have access to water
upon arrival, its a win-win situation.

Dickie, mulesing is about merino lambs, not prime lambs, which are
crossbreds and arn't mulesed. Do you have nobody with some expertise
that you could turn to, to educate you?

Heather and Dickie, I suggest that you pop in and visit the old people's home near you, to see what happens to old humans. Many die
slow deaths, in agony, as we wait until nature takes its course.
Religions insist that euthanasia is evil, no matter what. So that
is the fate that awaits you!

Quite frankly I think animals are far better off. When the time
comes, as it does to all of us, its quick as swift. As a human,
sadly I am denied that option. Time for you to do some soul searching perhaps..

dosent anybody know that the real and true free range meat is the one taken by HUNTING,that can be duck,pork,venison,rabbit,hare,pigeon,donkey and horse(yes both) etc etc

Its amazing (not really) to read all of the animal rights experts and their garbage that they do promote so ignorantly on this forum,i suggest that they (AL) get out and work on a property that is farming animals so as to see the real and truthful side of things instead of quoting Peta type garbage.

Farmers that i know do everything possible for their animals so as to maximise their income..simple as that it is and when XXXXXX is quoted the crime of animal cruelty is usually committed by an absentee owner that resides in the city and hasnt really got a clue..you know new chums from town that want to be "a farmer"

The issue isn't "does hunting=freerange?"

The issue isn't "what occurs in nursing homes for the aged?"

The issue isn't "whether or not one person on this forum who may or may not be from my local region, failed to see that the saleyards in MY local region do NOT consistently provide accessable water to all animals"

The issue isn't "Do I personally need to do some soul searching?"

The issue IS,
GIVEN that there is 'overwhelming documentary evidence of the fact that widespread and extreme cruelty to certain animals' IS a presence in our society and that there is enough of a consensus of opinion of those who want to eliminate such cruelty,
is there a new force in society, which may be the way to achieve this outcome, & is it in the form of a new branch of law called Animal Law?'

So it would be nice if this discussion could dispense with the bogging down and sidetracking attempts and keep on track with the actual issue raised by the article's author!

As Dickie indicated, a possible Force for Healing Change, in the acknowledged problem of Humanity's Barbaric treatment of many and certain groups of animals, might be 'sufficient people influencing the political momentum'.

Gary Francione has said that there ARE limits to what Animal Law can achieve.

My own belief and obervation is that the solution to this issue is as follows: there is a more SOPHISTICATED inter-relating of The Public, The Judiciary, The Legislature and The Executive 'waiting in the wings' (which CAN occur without upsetting the Separation of Powers ideal) which has the greatest untapped potential to be The Societal Force which will be able to resolve this matter of society's barbaric (where 'barbaric = a gross form of un-sophistication) treatment of animals.

Well Mrs Twist "things around",more untruths online from a vocal opponent of free choice in Australia eh,well i have to inform you that if there are any cases of non provision of water to animals in saleyards for extended periods, that good old "save the whaler" himself Dr Hugh Wirth" AKA as "Spew Worthless" would certainly seek some more publicity for himself and his org by jumping on the bandwagon and running another of his animal rights campaign`s. Hmm he always seems to do this when he`s coffers are running low.

I really cannot understand where you and your lot get off,i do what i want to do in legally Australia as it is my choice to do so,i dont care what you do yourself girl and thus dont rant and dribble on in trying to dissuade you from doing anything of your choice.Why dont you just give as you have absolutely no chance of changing the status quo re: this matter.

(where 'barbaric = a gross form of un-sophistication) treatment of animals.

BARBARIC...hmm according to Cambridge Dictionary it actually is ...."extremely cruel and unpleasant"

And so we get to your desperate choice of "un-sophistication " ...well it just aint so heather,it is certainly not on in saleyards to be barbaric as it is in the best interest of all concerned to have the animals in q`s to be at their best,forget the rhetoric and drive from AR`s that l you have unfortunately been unable to digest on your own and come up with the real truth of the saleyard system in Oz.

This weeks "weekly times" and also "the land" newspapers have all the details of the latest sales,i`m off to one sale to look over the Angus steers on offer and i do suggest that you do the same and have a good look at the saleyard system firsthand for yourself ...go on girl and then send us a report about your findings of "extremely cruel and unpleasant" behaviour!

un-sophistication was not found in the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary

Heather – you’ve never been caught behind a stock truck on the highway have you! That’s not green rain on your windows. No water?? Even the abattoirs provide water in their yards. Have you ever been to see any of this yourself? Don’t bother asking your local butcher – he wouldn’t have a clue. He just places his order and the carcass arrives on his doorstep and is almost as out of touch with the whole process as you are. Come down out of your ivory tower and take a walk in the real world. Find out the facts for yourself instead of ‘documented’ evidence or ‘so I have been told’.

Dickie – I think its interesting that you always attack me when I am one of the farmers that puts into practice everything you supposedly want. So whats your problem? Its just the whole meat eating thing isn’t it. Are you another like Heather that just wont be happy unless the world turns vegan?
To answer your questions – I do not castrate, tail dock or teeth clip pigs. I do not mules lambs. As for ripping out ovaries of cows?? Were does that come from? Can you enlighten me about this procedure?